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  1. SmH is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/02/2013 6:34am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think the only reasonable criteria here is: What's your reason for learning it? If you want to learn it because you want to lern Wing Chun, there you go. In that case, a good WC sytem will grant you a reliable progress in understanding and utilizing it in itself.

    If you want to learn to fight effectively and efficiently, I dare say Wing Chun shouldn't be your primary choice.

    If you want to learn to fight by using Wing Chun, well, people in this thread have gone over this sufficently in my opinion. Resistance training incorporating your WC techniques, conditioning and so on.
  2. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    5/02/2013 7:31am

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DimmedSum View Post
    I believe so, if I understand the chun bong sau correctly. He chicken winged his right elbow bringing it up and at the same time he shifted his feet so he was at a 45 angle to my left. I matched his footwork so our centerlines maintained alignment and kept my right arm loose, yet maintained the "sticky" concept to keep the bridge. He tried a few times and was unable to pass or break the bridge. I believe he was trying to pass so that he could go in and attack.

    We were not fighting, he was trying to demonstrate a technique, which failed.
    He was a fucking idiot.
  3. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    5/02/2013 7:34am

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    5
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Now, imagine a checkers player coming up to you and trying to give you advice on your chess game based on their checkers knowledge.

    That's how we see you when you start talking about Wing Chun and then try to draw any relationship between it and fighting.
  4. Southpaw is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/02/2013 8:05am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Wing Chun

    6
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kalavic View Post
    I don't think most 5 year TKD practitioners would have a reasonable advantage over a 5 year rugby guy. It's pretty hard to stop a strong guy from tackling you.
    Seriously? Aside from the obvious fact that being strong and doing TKD aren't mutually exclusive, isn't it also pretty hard for a untrained person to tackle someone who is kicking them in the face?

    Let's try to add a control variable here...

    Take two rugby players of the same size and strength. One stops playing rugby and goes to train wing chun with you. The other keeps playing rugby.

    They meet back up in 5 years as a beer pong tournament, and one of them makes fun of the other's tight Affliction shirt.

    A fight breaks out between the two.

    Question for you: Who has the advantage?

    If you contend that wing chun (the way you train it) will provide no advantage, then there is nothing "martial" about the 'art' of wing chun as you know it.



    Quote Originally Posted by kalavic View Post
    It comes down to being able to pose threats balanced with how well you can cover all your bases.
    I have no idea what you mean here. I'm not interested in posing threats to anyone. I'm interested in defending myself when I need to.


    Quote Originally Posted by kalavic View Post
    I think that WC can give you the strong advantage over someone who doesn't practice any sport regularly, just not enough to eclipse people in sports that aren't martial arts.
    There is so much wrong with this statement I don't know where to begin.

    I guess I'll just start by asking where in the range of sports (in terms of fighting ability) do you think wing chun falls?

    Is it above ping pong, but below tennis?

    Do joggers have an advantage over wing chun people?
  5. Dreykil is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/02/2013 11:30am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Wing Chun

    0
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I studied Wing Chun for a few years under the UK Wing Chun Kung Fu association.

    My instructors never claimed the techniques they taught would work wonders in a MMA competition, render me invulnerable, or transform me into the kind of deadly street fighter that would make Kimbo Slice soil himself in the woods. Their purpose was to train effective self-defence, particularly for smaller and weaker individuals, in the event of being attacked by bigger, stronger assailant/s in real life 'street' or 'bar brawl' situations.

    My training did help me defend myself against a bigger guy (not a trained fighter or martial artist) who picked a fight with me after one too many cans of Special Brew. Maintaining centreline control and using the bong sau guard (with my elbow higher than conventionally taught) allowed me, very efficiently, to block his wild punches. He gave up and the situation diffused. I seriously doubt such linear, rigid techniques would foil an accomplished boxer or grappler, but that is not what they were designed to do. The Wing Chun I was taught was to defend against the typical street bully, not to dismember the Ultimate Fighter.

    Wing Chun is often criticised in MMA for its absence of ground-fighting techniques. But Wing Chun wasn't made for modern MMA. If attacked on the street, I wouldn't want to go to the ground and grapple against a stronger opponent, waiting for him to pull a hidden knife on me or for his friends to use my head as a trampoline. If faced with a swinging bully, I'd want to block his attacks, or break the distance and stun him with a flurry of chain punches, then use the initiative to run away and have a good cry in the safety of my own home. Hardcore street-fighting, MMA and self-defence for the average Joe - who primarily wants to muddle through life relatively unscathed - are not the same thing.

    My criticism of the way I was taught Wing Chun (not of Wing Chun itself) is the lack of realistic sparring exercises. From what I've read, this is a problem with Wing Chun schools across the board. However effective certain techniques may be in specific situations, I simply haven't been able to train them under lifelike conditions. My instructors explained that certain techniques, such as finger jabs to the eyes and palm strikes to the groin, were too dangerous to train in sparring. But surely someone could design appropriate safety equipment for proper Wing Chun sparring?

    That said, the techniques they taught were easy to learn and understand - they were all simple movements whose application in 'self-defence vs thug' situations were very clearly outlined and demonstrated. And they worked as intended when I was actually attacked by a bully. This is how, for me, I would define 'good Wing Chun'. For me, 'bad Wing Chun' would teach complicated techniques that took years to apply efficiently, would require considerable strength or power, would encourage me to go to the ground and pray my opponent has no hidden knife (or friends) instead of enabling me to dissolve/ get out of the situation as quickly as possible.
  6. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    5/02/2013 11:54am

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreykil View Post
    Wing Chun is often criticised in MMA for its absence of ground-fighting techniques. But Wing Chun wasn't made for modern MMA. If attacked on the street, I wouldn't want to go to the ground and grapple against a stronger opponent, waiting for him to pull a hidden knife on me or for his friends to use my head as a trampoline. If faced with a swinging bully, I'd want to block his attacks, or break the distance and stun him with a flurry of chain punches, then use the initiative to run away and have a good cry in the safety of my own home. Hardcore street-fighting, MMA and self-defence for the average Joe - who primarily wants to muddle through life relatively unscathed - are not the same thing.
    I'm sure other people will address the rest of your post, but I want to go ahead and take a moment to clue you in on something.

    If you do not have training in proper grappling, then you do not get to decide whether a fight stays on the feet or not. Gravity is against you already, so anyone with a little bit of wrestling, american football, rugby, or just a determination to put you on the ground and punch you stupid is probably going to be able to take the fight there.
    At that point if you don't know how to grapple effectively then you are going to get your **** bashed in.
  7. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/02/2013 12:00pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't want to be on the ground either in a self defense situation.
    That is WHY I train BJJ (ok not really I love the sport).
    However that being said BJJ has given me the tools to get my ass off of the ground.
    Really without it (or other ground fighting system) it becomes really hard to escape the mount or even to stop a ground and pound from the guard.
    You don't have to become a master of ground fighting for it to make a difference either. I say a year or 2 of most ground fighting systems are going to give you enough competencies to get your ass off of the ground.
  8. franginho is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/02/2013 12:04pm


     Style: JiuJistu

    4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kintanon and Goodlun, could you two stop making so much fucking sense? I will run out of rep for you guys!
  9. Southpaw is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/02/2013 12:55pm

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     Style: BJJ, Wing Chun

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by franginho View Post
    ... it doesn't but neither does ing&ung... why do I have to spell that out? I thought this was BS.
    Yes please spell it out.

    If for no other reason to pretend you are actually adding something relevant to this conversation.
  10. ermghoti is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/02/2013 1:03pm


     Style: BJJ+Sanda

    5
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreykil View Post
    I studied Wing Chun for a few years under the UK Wing Chun Kung Fu association.

    My instructors never claimed the techniques they taught would work wonders in a MMA competition, render me invulnerable, or transform me into the kind of deadly street fighter that would make Kimbo Slice soil himself in the woods. Their purpose was to train effective self-defence, particularly for smaller and weaker individuals, in the event of being attacked by bigger, stronger assailant/s in real life 'street' or 'bar brawl' situations.

    My training did help me defend myself against a bigger guy (not a trained fighter or martial artist) who picked a fight with me after one too many cans of Special Brew. Maintaining centreline control and using the bong sau guard (with my elbow higher than conventionally taught) allowed me, very efficiently, to block his wild punches. He gave up and the situation diffused. I seriously doubt such linear, rigid techniques would foil an accomplished boxer or grappler, but that is not what they were designed to do. The Wing Chun I was taught was to defend against the typical street bully, not to dismember the Ultimate Fighter.

    Wing Chun is often criticised in MMA for its absence of ground-fighting techniques. But Wing Chun wasn't made for modern MMA. If attacked on the street, I wouldn't want to go to the ground and grapple against a stronger opponent, waiting for him to pull a hidden knife on me or for his friends to use my head as a trampoline. If faced with a swinging bully, I'd want to block his attacks, or break the distance and stun him with a flurry of chain punches, then use the initiative to run away and have a good cry in the safety of my own home. Hardcore street-fighting, MMA and self-defence for the average Joe - who primarily wants to muddle through life relatively unscathed - are not the same thing.

    My criticism of the way I was taught Wing Chun (not of Wing Chun itself) is the lack of realistic sparring exercises. From what I've read, this is a problem with Wing Chun schools across the board. However effective certain techniques may be in specific situations, I simply haven't been able to train them under lifelike conditions. My instructors explained that certain techniques, such as finger jabs to the eyes and palm strikes to the groin, were too dangerous to train in sparring. But surely someone could design appropriate safety equipment for proper Wing Chun sparring?

    That said, the techniques they taught were easy to learn and understand - they were all simple movements whose application in 'self-defence vs thug' situations were very clearly outlined and demonstrated. And they worked as intended when I was actually attacked by a bully. This is how, for me, I would define 'good Wing Chun'. For me, 'bad Wing Chun' would teach complicated techniques that took years to apply efficiently, would require considerable strength or power, would encourage me to go to the ground and pray my opponent has no hidden knife (or friends) instead of enabling me to dissolve/ get out of the situation as quickly as possible.
    Do boxing.
    Quote Originally Posted by strikistanian View Post
    DROP SEIONAGI ************! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil
    Why is it so goddamn hard to find a video of it? I've seen videos I'm pretty sure are alien spacecraft. But still no good Krav.
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