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  1. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/30/2013 11:13am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kalavic View Post
    Let me spell out your last two posts:

    Troll.
    Let me show you what this entire thread and your return to bullshido is about......

    Lowering 'the' bar = one bar being made easier.
    Correct and what did you say?
    but to make a second lower bar to have 3 groups: bad wing chun 30%, wing chun 69%, and martial art wing chun 1%.
    So, your erroneous use of an idiom is not my problem.
    Adding 'an' additional bar place lower = defining a new subcategory which already exists.
    (They have different meanings.)
    You rewrite the sentence, to what you really meant and I am the troll? Bullshit. You poorly expressing yourself and me disagreeing with your shitty categorizations doesn't make me a troll.

    Saying "lower bar" then assigning your own personal meaning is the height of idiocy.

    Never thought I'd have to explain definite/indefinite article usage to a native speaker.
    The fact you did neither is HILARIOUS. The fact you have made up words, that I left alone, in various posts is ridiculous. Are you kidding? You can't be serious? Either that or you are a fucking moron. Get the dictionary, cite your sources or admit you are wrong.

    A different category is called "a different category," "a new category" or a "sub-category." That is the proper usage of a definite or indefinite article. You do not understand idioms. Idioms and their meanings do not change because of definite or indefinite article usage.

    "Don't cry over spilt milk" doesn't change because you say "are you having a cry over spilt milk." Yes, the idiom carries the same meaning, it is the purpose that changes with the use of "articles." The idiom still means "do not worry about something that has already happened or gone bad."


    Who knew? That's the last time I'll adress one of your posts unless it contains relevant content.
    It is also the last time you'll be posting in this area.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 4/30/2013 11:21am at .
  2. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    4/30/2013 11:43am

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kalavic View Post
    Lowering 'the' bar = one bar being made easier.
    Adding 'an' additional bar place lower = defining a new subcategory which already exists.
    That would make The Purging easier I suppose.
  3. kalavic is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/30/2013 11:54am


     Style: wing chun

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Southpaw View Post
    I'm not sure I agree with this...and I'm not sure what you mean by "more effective martial arts..." Are you saying that there are more efficient ways to learn to be effective at fighting? If that's your point...then I do agree.

    Look...wing chun is a victim of itself. Like any martial art that isn't regularly tested in a full-contact competitive nature...it's going to be sketchy when you try to use it in real life (if you don't recreate the pressure testing that naturally comes with competition).

    The challenge with Wing Chun is that not very many people can handle and stick to the type of training that is required to make it applicable and functional. This isn't a positive aspect of wing chun BTW. The fact that you need to be inherently tough to train it enough to make it work really limits the 'global' and overall effectiveness of (your average) wing chun (fighter).

    So...yes it's a martial art. Yes it can be useful and effective. Yes if you are a successful wing chun fighter...you probably would have been a bad ass (insert any martial art here) fighter.

    Not sure what my point is...but I am obligated to respond to any wing chun thread per my lifetime commitment to adding logic to wing chun fallacies.
    Yes, that's what I meant for the most part.

    The way I see it, WC went through kind of a round of anti-development. Right before its rise to fame it was an environment where people came in, focused on making incremental gains each day through drills a sparring type game, and then occasionally put some pressure testing against the local competition which shared a similar training atmosphere. The level of applicable technique never developed past an amateurish level (where amateur means like amateur boxers who could kick most people's ass) but it developed. Then it quickly turned to one where people come in and 'are taught the curriculum' and 'teach' how to use it to back riddiculous claims.

    The thing that makes it valuable is it went through a separate line of development. It has its own unique flavor. But I think it's far enough behind that it's easier to view it not as a complete martial art, but as a supplementary art.

    I'm with everyone that it should raise your fighting ability, but how far do you expect it to take you? Shot put isn't a martial art, but if you spent 4 years training it, I guarantee it would make you the decisive advantage over a nonMAist.

    (Fruity Analogy Warning!)

    Chess is easy because there's a clear numeric rating for how well you compare to other players. I'm around 2000, which is pretty good for someone with very limited tournament experience and never had a coach, but anyone who sticks with a good coach should be able to make it there no problem. A master needs to pass 2300, an elite will be around 2800, an intelligent adult who knows the rules will be around 1000. It works out that for about every 200 points you should have a strong advantage, 400 points and you could probably win 10/10 games.

    If I were to put MA on the same scale, I'd probably be around 1600. That's like good enough to have an advantage over the me that could have kicked the ass of me if I'd never trained MA but been in good shape. So yeah, it has self-defense value. A bjj black belt would be more around 2200, so he could kick the ass of the guy who could kick my ass. Anderson Silva 2800, you get the idea. I haven't seen any WC that I think would be much above 2000 level. That's where I draw the line for what counts as a martial art. A dedicated student with a competent instructor should expect to get to at least that approximate level of fighting strength.
  4. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    4/30/2013 12:08pm

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     Style: TKD, BJJ

    8
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    But Chess ratings are determined by... actually playing games of chess against other people.

    How did you decide you deserve a 2000 Martial Arts Elo rating? Based on your feelings?

    I can tell you that based on my competition experience I fall right around the 50th percentile for purple belts in my weight class. On my good days I might edge the 60th percentile. I tend to beat a certain type of opponent and lose to certain other types. I have a vast library of competition experience against other people to compare myself to, so I have a pretty realistic basis for deciding how good I am.

    Do you have a similar basis of competition? What kind of competition? My personal assessment only applies to jiujitsu. If I were dumped into MMA matches I would probably drop into the low 20th percentile. Beating people with zero ground game and losing to everyone else. Judo? Same deal. Changing the environment changes my relative fitness for the activity. The further away you go from the environment I train in the worse I get. Put me in a Muay Thai match and I'm in the bottom 1% along with all of the other untrained scrubs.

    So, if your experience is Wing Chun, then is your Elo measurement only for chunning against other chunners? Or do you have experience that allows you to draw some kind of comparison against the broader category of fighting?
  5. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/30/2013 12:13pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon View Post
    But Chess ratings are determined by... actually playing games of chess against other people.
    Also, like you alluded to in your post, it is against your compatriots and others you do not know.
  6. bobyclumsyninja is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/30/2013 12:13pm

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     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kalavic View Post
  7. atheistmantis is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/01/2013 12:50am

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     Style: Tang Soo Don't Retired

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja View Post
    I really hate to comment on this but it has been my experience that Wing Chun is a weak martial art. Only in the sense as it pertains to sparring against other disiplines e.g. Karate, BJJ, and Korean Tang Soo Do, Thai Boxing. Other forms of Gung Fu might fare better based on videos I've seen.
  8. kalavic is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/01/2013 1:42am


     Style: wing chun

    -3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon View Post
    But Chess ratings are determined by... actually playing games of chess against other people.

    How did you decide you deserve a 2000 Martial Arts Elo rating? Based on your feelings?

    I can tell you that based on my competition experience I fall right around the 50th percentile for purple belts in my weight class. On my good days I might edge the 60th percentile. I tend to beat a certain type of opponent and lose to certain other types. I have a vast library of competition experience against other people to compare myself to, so I have a pretty realistic basis for deciding how good I am.

    Do you have a similar basis of competition? What kind of competition? My personal assessment only applies to jiujitsu. If I were dumped into MMA matches I would probably drop into the low 20th percentile. Beating people with zero ground game and losing to everyone else. Judo? Same deal. Changing the environment changes my relative fitness for the activity. The further away you go from the environment I train in the worse I get. Put me in a Muay Thai match and I'm in the bottom 1% along with all of the other untrained scrubs.

    So, if your experience is Wing Chun, then is your Elo measurement only for chunning against other chunners? Or do you have experience that allows you to draw some kind of comparison against the broader category of fighting?
    The rating system is an indicator of how well a pool of people perform against each other in a specific event. My translating directly to fighting is very rough as any pool of contestents will define their own rating distribution. There's no upward limit, so for fighting it could end up 4000, which wouldmake sense as there are move factors in fighting than chess. Anyhow the pool for fighting I figured was on on a completely open, minimal rules, full contact fight against someone in your weightclass. Google elo if you're interested. I think sambo uses one btw.

    My 2000 rating is for chess and I know that's what it is, because I got it by performing against rated players. I estimated myself a more modest 1600 for fighting. I based it on how well I perform in mid and full contact sparring people with various martial art experience. My cousin-in-law is a life-long sambo practitioner, and he can waste me every time. Of my Judo friends I have a strong advantage over the beginners, but the guy my size who has been doing it for several years can beat me at judo every time. When we go full contact I have an advantage over him, but he has strong threats so gets me about a third of the time. Against my friend with several years of kickboxing experience, he can out-box me, but not by enough that I'm not a threat, but I used to be able to beat him every time by taking it to the ground. Now it's a lot harder to take him down. You get the idea. It's just a matter of making friends with various martial artists, learning what you can from them when you can. I could be off, but it's a basic guesstimate.

    WC vs. WC would have it's own separate rating system, but once they go in the open I think any plain vanilla WCist wouldn't perform above the 1400 level. I think that's not good enough to be considered a martial art because you could get the same advantage by rugby or shotput.

    So if you're about halfway through your purple belt, i'm figuring someone someone who's been doing WC for 20 years but nothing else wouldn't have much threat against you, and he wouldn't have a chance against anyone else who would be a threat to you either.
  9. kalavic is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/01/2013 1:46am


     Style: wing chun

    -4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is just funny. Why does my chess strength even matter? Do you want to see videos of me playing chess?
  10. kalavic is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/01/2013 1:49am


     Style: wing chun

    -3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you've noticed, I haven't been giving any martial art advice, so my estimation of my own strength really isn't important, especially being as it isn't especially strong. What's the big deal?

    I
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