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  1. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/13/2013 2:36pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wingchunx2z View Post
    Wall of Bullshit
    Yep a whole bunch of bullshit that doesn't take into account that these methods have worked fine in Non-Padded fighting for a very long time.
    Bare Knuckle boxing...
    MMA striking that uses MT & Boxing...
    A long list of news articles of boxers defending themselves...

    You see your hypothesis has been tested and found to be lacking. Time to reject your hypothesis and try again.
  2. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    5/13/2013 2:43pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wingchunx2z View Post
    From my experience I'd use boxing in a fight where I wanted to toy around with my opponent in a large environment where I could move around and use angles. I'd use leg kicks to reduce mobility as most people are not used to being kicked that hard in that nerve, but again most likely only if the situation were fairly passive.
    What is your experience toying with opponents using boxing and leg kicks?
  3. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    5/13/2013 2:46pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Yep a whole bunch of bullshit that doesn't take into account that these methods have worked fine in Non-Padded fighting for a very long time.
    Bare Knuckle boxing...
    For better or worse, boxing defense has actually changed since the introduction of gloves. This is a separate issue from whether or not techniques of the day were better or worse, gloves or otherwise.
  4. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/13/2013 2:49pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    For better or worse, boxing de fense has actually changed since the introduction of gloves. This is a separate issue from whether or not techniques of the day were better or worse, gloves or otherwise.
    True but his argument was against shelling up. Something Bare Knucklers do. I could go even further and look at other unpadded stricking that shells up such as KK.
  5. Kovacs is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/13/2013 3:35pm


     Style: Kettles (MA hiatus).

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wingchunx2z View Post
    For me personally, I don't really like muay thai or boxings answers for defense in a non padded environment. The easiest example is the defense to the body kick. The first option is of course to circle off and not be there making them miss you. Doing this on a real person is quite difficult and not possible if there's not enough room to move around. The blocking method therefore is to tuck in your elbow and basically let the kick hit your arm instead of your ribs. You see this theme all throughout muay thai and boxing. If you can't dodge it let it hit something else that will hurt less.

    One of the pro's for this method of defense is that it's much quicker. It's takes comparatively less skill and time to move your arm a few inches and absorb a shot then it does to reach your arm out and intercept the punch or stop kick the opponent's kick.

    Kintanon and I had a discussion on this a few years ago and he surmised that it was the only realistic approach as it took "spiderman like reflexes" to counter an opponent the way wing chun teaches.

    When you're both padded up though you have a mouth piece to bit on and help absorb impact. You can shell up and eat punches on your forearm and elbows and it's not that big of a deal with gloves on. I find shelling defenses become much less usefull even with the drop to smaller mma gloves.

    Defense in a real situation is probably my biggest problem, but as for offense. I'll admit that Boxing and muay thai will hit much harder than my current wing chun style. However, I'm much more adaptable and I hit much more often.

    From my experience I'd use boxing in a fight where I wanted to toy around with my opponent in a large environment where I could move around and use angles. I'd use leg kicks to reduce mobility as most people are not used to being kicked that hard in that nerve, but again most likely only if the situation were fairly passive.

    To end it quickly I'd use wing chun. Why? because wing chun especially against an unskilled opponent is to me the quickest and simplest way to end the fight. Simultaneous attack and defense, blocking and hitting in one motion and attacking down the center line is still my preferred attack strategy.

    The weakness of this strategy is that it leaves my head open to counter attack as both arms are out in space. It's SAFER in a sport environment against more skilled fighters to use a boxing guard, but the payoff using wing chun would be to end the fight much quicker if wing chun works as it should the first combination he throws should be countered at nearly every punch.


    And there's your wingchunx2z wall of text. now aren't you sorry you asked? :)
    Have you learned nothing from coming to this site? That's all reasoning that's been killed of years ago as theory. That's all the usual WC sales pitch, none of that has been proven.
    "Won't fight me in the ring? Don't fight me on the street."
    Paraphrased from Bullshido.

    "You can't judge Martial Arts until you feel the joy of kicking someone in the face and not go to prison for it."
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  6. wingchunx2z is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/13/2013 9:04pm


     Style: Wing Chun

    -1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    What is your experience toying with opponents using boxing and leg kicks?
    Admittedly, pretty little. I don't like showing off and I let a lot of things slide without resorting to any sort of violence. I'm a pretty easy going and nice person so I don't often find myself in physical confrontations. The few times I have were more along the lines of an exhibition that got a bit out of hand and the guy copped an attitude and tried to make it a little more than it was. In my circle of non MA friends I am the "kung fu guy" and they like to have drunk people try to punch me and watch me defend lol.
  7. wingchunx2z is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/13/2013 9:11pm


     Style: Wing Chun

    -1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    True but his argument was against shelling up. Something Bare Knucklers do. I could go even further and look at other unpadded stricking that shells up such as KK.
    I didn't say it wouldn't work. I said I don't like the answer it gives. Another example is the BJJ turtle defense. My bjj training has me either wrist roll, shrimp and turn into half guard, or try to roll out over my shoulders back into guard.

    I don't like these options so I use wrestling referee potion escapes like sitouts, switches, and stand ups. That's not because the BJJ methods don;t work or get me submitted. I just don't like the results they give me so I look elsewhere for a better solution that works for me.

    Also, like the wing chun/boxing example it's more risky to use wrestling here. It often ends up in having them get their hooks in when I fail to clear the hips well enough. But the reward for success is most of the time a reversal rather than just transitioning to a guard.

    Remember, the original post was that I personally would choose wing chun as a method over the other striking arts I mentioned. I never said that those arts wouldn't work, just that I wasn't as happy with their answer to the problem as I was wing chun.
  8. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/13/2013 9:14pm

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     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wingchunx2z View Post
    I'd agree with this. It's an interesting point, but it's also a bit more complex than that.
    It certainly is.
    Quote Originally Posted by wingchunx2z View Post
    MMA striking isn't really a style of striking so much as a specific environment which lends itself well towards a certain approach.
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by wingchunx2z View Post
    There are various methods of striking that have all been successful in mma.
    Quote Originally Posted by wingchunx2z View Post
    Clay guida's striking style is quite different from Matt Sera's which is also quite different from Anderson Silva. Their approach and the arts they use to deliver it vary considerably.
    They all know those strikes. I comes down to how they are used in the fluid, and dangerous realm, of high level - full contact - minimal rules - fighting.
    Quote Originally Posted by wingchunx2z View Post
    Thusfar, the closest I've seen to wing chun style attacks being used in MMA would be nick diaz's stockton slap style boxing, and Jon Jones reaching out and sticking to his opponent's arm before whipping out and landing a shot.


  9. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/13/2013 9:19pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wingchunx2z View Post
    Kintanon and I had a discussion on this a few years ago and he surmised that it was the only realistic approach as it took "spiderman like reflexes" to counter an opponent the way wing chun teaches.
    Holy **** this.

    Guess who you aren't?
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  10. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/13/2013 11:09pm

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wingchunx2z View Post
    I didn't say it wouldn't work. I said I don't like the answer it gives.
    Who gives a **** what answer you want to hear. It works not only does it work it has proven to work better than the answer you like. It is a tested hypothesis. One that has been tested time and time again. The answer is the answer. So instead of being a petulant child with your fingers in your ears going nan nan nan nan nan how about you except it.

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