232391 Bullies, 4066 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 111 to 120 of 235
Page 12 of 24 FirstFirst ... 289101112 1314151622 ... LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. atheistmantis is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    446

    Posted On:
    5/03/2013 2:54am

    supporting member
     Style: Tang Soo Don't Retired

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dreykil, WC is so weak it astounds me that people actually consider using it as self defense. I have sparred many Chunners in the past and I mean hard sparring, and they just don't measure up. Sorry to say but YMAS.
  2. kalavic is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    65

    Posted On:
    5/03/2013 6:45am


     Style: wing chun

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Drey, it seems pretty obvious that you're not talking about what you've learned from your experience fighting with skilled practitioners of other martial arts. You're just regurgitating the same tripe that's been hanging around your kuen for decades.

    If you want to do wing chun, spend your time doing it instead of hypothesising about how it relates to fighting ability. If you want to know how effective it is (or isn't), test it on a skilled nonWC opponent.
  3. DerAuslander is offline
    DerAuslander's Avatar

    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    18,451

    Posted On:
    5/03/2013 7:16am

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreykil View Post
    It is Fake - Thanks for taking the time to reply in such detail and for illustrating your points with video samples and articles.

    The Anti-Grappling seminar looks fanciful at best... perhaps some of the moves would work if the 'Wing Chun' practitioner were three times as strong as their attacker. The 'Wing Chun Masters' grappling video was just embarrassing.

    It's easy to see why people ridicule Wing Chun if they base their opinions on samples such as these. As stated though, I trained with the UK Wing Chun Kung Fu Association - to the best of my memory we never applied Wing Chun techniques in any of the contexts illustrated in your video samples.

    You say people will go to a Kung Fu Kwoon to learn how to grapple. Perhaps this is an American thing? In my country (UK), I don't think I've heard of a single case of someone studying Kung Fu to train grappling, though a few of my friends have trained both BJJ and Wing Chun.

    I agree that pressure, competition and live experience make better fighters. This was the gist of my criticism that Wing Chun lacked realistic sparring exercises. That said, I have listened to and read enough feedback from UKWCKF students about how their training has saved them in real life situations to realise there must be something in it.

    You MMA vs Gun example: Interesting but irrelevant, since I was discussing what I consider the benefits of my particular Wing Chun school, to me, in the UK. Gun attacks on civilians who aren't gang members are rare in the UK, since it is illegal for practically anyone over here to own a gun. Point taken though - if I move to the US then perhaps I should train some 'ultimate fighting', just in case someone tries to pop a cap in my ass.

    Regarding your knife disarmament examples, I'm sure plenty of martial arts have useful moves that can work in such situations. My point was that I don't want to go to the ground to test them out against a hidden knife if I can possibly avoid it. I don't deny that many a grappling practitioner might well floor me, despite my best efforts to avoid it. However, all the fights I've ever witnessed first-hand have been drunken brawls in or near to pubs/ clubs, or bullies picking on victims - I doubt most of these assailants could even spell the word 'grapple'. True, I don't live in a rough neighbourhood, nor do I go out looking for trouble. If I lived a more violent lifestyle, I'd definitely complement my Wing Chun with some kind of ground-fighting discipline, just in case I got mugged by Matt Hughes.

    I think you missed the point I apparently 'ruined'. I wasn't arguing Wing Chun is better than other martial arts on the street. I wasn't arguing Wing Chun is better at gun or knife disarmament than other martial arts. I agree that different Wing Chun schools use variations on the same techniques. And yes, the contextual applications of these techniques in the video samples you shared made me face-palm like Patrick Stewart with a migraine.

    My point was that Wing Chun (at least the variation I studied) has its strengths; it is simple and quick to learn, smaller and weaker people can use it effectively and it works well against your average thug who isn't an accomplished grappler.
    Have you ever used your Wing Chun to compete on the leitai or in sanshou, or has someone else in your school or association?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreykil View Post
    It is Fake - Thanks for taking the time to reply in such detail and for illustrating your points with video samples and articles.

    The Anti-Grappling seminar looks fanciful at best... perhaps some of the moves would work if the 'Wing Chun' practitioner were three times as strong as their attacker. The 'Wing Chun Masters' grappling video was just embarrassing.

    It's easy to see why people ridicule Wing Chun if they base their opinions on samples such as these. As stated though, I trained with the UK Wing Chun Kung Fu Association - to the best of my memory we never applied Wing Chun techniques in any of the contexts illustrated in your video samples.

    You say people will go to a Kung Fu Kwoon to learn how to grapple. Perhaps this is an American thing? In my country (UK), I don't think I've heard of a single case of someone studying Kung Fu to train grappling, though a few of my friends have trained both BJJ and Wing Chun.

    I agree that pressure, competition and live experience make better fighters. This was the gist of my criticism that Wing Chun lacked realistic sparring exercises. That said, I have listened to and read enough feedback from UKWCKF students about how their training has saved them in real life situations to realise there must be something in it.

    You MMA vs Gun example: Interesting but irrelevant, since I was discussing what I consider the benefits of my particular Wing Chun school, to me, in the UK. Gun attacks on civilians who aren't gang members are rare in the UK, since it is illegal for practically anyone over here to own a gun. Point taken though - if I move to the US then perhaps I should train some 'ultimate fighting', just in case someone tries to pop a cap in my ass.

    Regarding your knife disarmament examples, I'm sure plenty of martial arts have useful moves that can work in such situations. My point was that I don't want to go to the ground to test them out against a hidden knife if I can possibly avoid it. I don't deny that many a grappling practitioner might well floor me, despite my best efforts to avoid it. However, all the fights I've ever witnessed first-hand have been drunken brawls in or near to pubs/ clubs, or bullies picking on victims - I doubt most of these assailants could even spell the word 'grapple'. True, I don't live in a rough neighbourhood, nor do I go out looking for trouble. If I lived a more violent lifestyle, I'd definitely complement my Wing Chun with some kind of ground-fighting discipline, just in case I got mugged by Matt Hughes.

    I think you missed the point I apparently 'ruined'. I wasn't arguing Wing Chun is better than other martial arts on the street. I wasn't arguing Wing Chun is better at gun or knife disarmament than other martial arts. I agree that different Wing Chun schools use variations on the same techniques. And yes, the contextual applications of these techniques in the video samples you shared made me face-palm like Patrick Stewart with a migraine.

    My point was that Wing Chun (at least the variation I studied) has its strengths; it is simple and quick to learn, smaller and weaker people can use it effectively and it works well against your average thug who isn't an accomplished grappler.
    Have you ever used your Wing Chun to compete on the leitai or in sanshou, or has someone else in your school or association?

    Quote Originally Posted by atheistmantis View Post
    Dreykil, WC is so weak it astounds me that people actually consider using it as self defense. I have sparred many Chunners in the past and I mean hard sparring, and they just don't measure up. Sorry to say but YMAS.
    LOL, you do Dangsudo.

    Quote Originally Posted by atheistmantis View Post
    Dreykil, WC is so weak it astounds me that people actually consider using it as self defense. I have sparred many Chunners in the past and I mean hard sparring, and they just don't measure up. Sorry to say but YMAS.
    LOL, you do Dangsudo.
  4. kalavic is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    65

    Posted On:
    5/03/2013 7:32am


     Style: wing chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Southpaw View Post
    Seriously? Aside from the obvious fact that being strong and doing TKD aren't mutually exclusive, isn't it also pretty hard for a untrained person to tackle someone who is kicking them in the face?

    Let's try to add a control variable here...

    Take two rugby players of the same size and strength. One stops playing rugby and goes to train wing chun with you. The other keeps playing rugby.

    They meet back up in 5 years as a beer pong tournament, and one of them makes fun of the other's tight Affliction shirt.

    A fight breaks out between the two.

    Question for you: Who has the advantage?

    If you contend that wing chun (the way you train it) will provide no advantage, then there is nothing "martial" about the 'art' of wing chun as you know it.





    I have no idea what you mean here. I'm not interested in posing threats to anyone. I'm interested in defending myself when I need to.




    There is so much wrong with this statement I don't know where to begin.

    I guess I'll just start by asking where in the range of sports (in terms of fighting ability) do you think wing chun falls?

    Is it above ping pong, but below tennis?

    Do joggers have an advantage over wing chun people?
    Let's look at it this way. A sport teaches people how to use their bodies to perform different tasks. There's nothing special about fighthing, it's just another sport. A rugby player, aside from conditioning his body, has had a lot of exposure having a strong force hit him and learning how to react. He's used to having to respond to visual input to dodge things hitting him. He teaches himself how to apply a strong force and move in various directions. None of these are done specifically for fighting, but they would be assets in a fighthing contest.

    This a sport that would have a high crossover value because with a minimal amount of strategy, he could learn how to use it to generate some threats (meaning ways he could force a win, not being a menace to society). He could figure something like, tackling into the wall or the ground, pounding from there. He would also have some of his bases partially covered, with a strong neck and good reflexes, he'd me much more difficult to knock out than your average joe. Overall, that's enough to have a decisive advantage over non-martial artists. Jogging (though more of an exercise than a sport, at least make it the 200m dash, marathon or something) would have a lesser value, but it would still help you from gassing, and Run Fu is pretty good stuff.

    The rugby guy's problem is he's never trained fighting at the technical level. Once he came against someone who had trained an equal amount of time wrestling, he would lose his threats.

    I can't make a clear comparison of how WC would compare to all the other non-martial-art sports, but I can say that it gets eclipsed by strong martial arts in the same way that rugby does, so I put it in the same category.
  5. Psycho Dad is online now
    Psycho Dad's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    1,260

    Posted On:
    5/03/2013 7:52am


     Style: BJJ/Boxing

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kalavic View Post
    Let's look at it this way. A sport teaches people how to use their bodies to perform different tasks. There's nothing special about fighthing, it's just another sport. A rugby player, aside from conditioning his body, has had a lot of exposure having a strong force hit him and learning how to react. He's used to having to respond to visual input to dodge things hitting him. He teaches himself how to apply a strong force and move in various directions. None of these are done specifically for fighting, but they would be assets in a fighthing contest.

    This a sport that would have a high crossover value because with a minimal amount of strategy, he could learn how to use it to generate some threats (meaning ways he could force a win, not being a menace to society). He could figure something like, tackling into the wall or the ground, pounding from there. He would also have some of his bases partially covered, with a strong neck and good reflexes, he'd me much more difficult to knock out than your average joe. Overall, that's enough to have a decisive advantage over non-martial artists. Jogging (though more of an exercise than a sport, at least make it the 200m dash, marathon or something) would have a lesser value, but it would still help you from gassing, and Run Fu is pretty good stuff.

    The rugby guy's problem is he's never trained fighting at the technical level. Once he came against someone who had trained an equal amount of time wrestling, he would lose his threats.

    I can't make a clear comparison of how WC would compare to all the other non-martial-art sports, but I can say that it gets eclipsed by strong martial arts in the same way that rugby does, so I put it in the same category.
    By your reasoning masturbation should help you be a good sex partner.
    Quote Originally Posted by Newb1 View Post

    B) I could not beat a Judoka with Aikido. I could only beat an Aikidoka with Aikido. I thought that was understook.
  6. Chili Pepper is online now
    Chili Pepper's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    2,258

    Posted On:
    5/03/2013 8:18am


     Style: Siling Labuyo Arnis

    6
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    To make matters worse you believe the ground to be an incredibly dangerous place to be ..... yet ..... you do an art that increases the odds of being on the ground and gives you no tools to deal with it when you are there.
    Goodlun has arm-barred the truth.

    Dreykil, when the UFC first started up, the martial arts mags were filled with letters from outraged martial artists, bloviating as to why they would not be defeated, and certainly not by the Gracies or groundwork.

    The crowning glory was the letter from the chunner, who lost a street altercation when it went to the ground, and who was told by his sifu afterwards that he simply should not have let the fight go to the ground.

    I know you're being dog-packed here, but really, it's good advice; you should take it.
  7. SmH is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    48

    Posted On:
    5/03/2013 9:01am


     

    -3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho Dad View Post
    By your reasoning masturbation should help you be a good sex partner.
    It does...technically. A 17 year old boy who gets ***** fot the first time in his live won't be Don Juan, but being kind of prepared to they physics of the situation by discovering internetporn and starting to masturbate at an age as early as 13 (which equals physical conditioning in the fighting analogy) will give him a slight advantage over a boy who didn't ever jerk off. This slight advantage won't be much from the view of a pornstar, but it might make the difference between the girl going for a round two or never touching him again. Get my point?
  8. franginho is offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    250

    Posted On:
    5/03/2013 9:10am


     Style: JiuJistu

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
  9. jnp is offline
    jnp's Avatar

    Titanium laced beauty

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    8,243

    Posted On:
    5/03/2013 9:11am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    6
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SmH View Post
    It does...technically. A 17 year old boy who gets ***** fot the first time in his live won't be Don Juan, but being kind of prepared to they physics of the situation by discovering internetporn and starting to masturbate at an age as early as 13 (which equals physical conditioning in the fighting analogy) will give him a slight advantage over a boy who didn't ever jerk off. This slight advantage won't be much from the view of a pornstar, but it might make the difference between the girl going for a round two or never touching him again. Get my point?
    Congratulations! You have won the "Most off-topic/worthless post" prize of the day!

    The quoted post above is proof that BS attracts members who will argue or dispute anything, and I mean anything.

    Sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes it's not.

    I'm not trying to pick on you SmH . . . wait a minute, this is BS, yes I am.
  10. Southpaw is online now
    Southpaw's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    2,925

    Posted On:
    5/03/2013 11:00am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Wing Chun

    5
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreykil View Post
    My point was that Wing Chun (at least the variation I studied) has its strengths; it is simple and quick to learn, smaller and weaker people can use it effectively and it works well against your average thug who isn't an accomplished grappler.
    Ok...I'm going to tell you my experiences with Wing Chun because in my opinion you are just regurgitating WC marketing propaganda...and not indicating any real experience training and applying wing chun. I started training around 13 or 14 years ago. I still train WC today (though no longer formally under my Sifu...who is a great guy, a really good fighter, and a good friend.), yet for the past 6 years have been focusing overwhelmingly on bjj.

    On wing chun being:

    Simple--Theoretically a lot of it is. Direct punches. Efficient kicks. No big movements. The problem is that in order to effectively use this "simple" system, you have to have a fairly high skill level in addition to incredibly high level reflexes and fighting insight. If you think you are going to use a bong sau to redirect a good punch, you damn sure better read that punch the split second his shoulder moves and shoot that bong sau out fast. Those types of insights aren't simple, or learned by drills. Wing Chun is simple...just like Roger Gracie's jiu jitsu is simple. In other words, it may look simple when your Sifu shows you how easy it is to disrupt a punch with a bil sao, or when I see Roger Gracie do a collar choke from mount, but god damn when the time comes to actually address a punch, or for me to actually finish a collar choke against a decent opponent, it sure as **** ain't as easy as it looked.

    Quick to learn--Bullshit. Hands down. Major bullshit. As alluded to above, learning how to do a straight punch is fairly easy and quick. Gaining the ability to use it effectively against a non-compliant opponent is not. This idea of quickness is nothing but a gimmick to entice lazy people.

    Good for smaller and weaker people--I'm really not aware of too many arts that don't make this claim. If WC fails often when pressure tested for people who aren't small and weak...I'm not sure how this claim holds any water at all. I think the idea of most martial arts is to try and gain an advantage over a threat that is bigger or stronger. I guess WC is a better art for weaker people than say...sumo...but I've seen no evidence that it is any better for a small person than any other art...and usually not as good. I'll tell you right now, I can count on 1 hand the wing chun people that I've met who are smaller than me who I think can beat my ass (my sifu being one of them). I've sparred with countless wing chun people. I can walk into my bjj school on any given day, and line up 20 people who are smaller than me and can very easily put me to sleep.


    Works well against your average thug--This isn't true. Your average thug, if they are really a thug, has infinitely more fighting experience than your average wing chun practitioner. I think your average thug or criminal beats most wing chun people because they have actually been punched in the face before.
Page 12 of 24 FirstFirst ... 289101112 1314151622 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.