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  1. Dreykil is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/02/2013 6:49pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    BJMills - I agree the Wing Chun stance limits mobility and increases vulnerability to takedowns. However, it does allow power generation for intercepting or counter-punching.

    I agree that chain punches are weak in comparison to any boxing punch that isn't a jab. On the other hand, chain punches are faster and take the shortest route to the target area in bunches. They can unbalance or stun an opponent. Also, since their effect relies more on fast twitch muscle fibres (learning to expand and contract quickly) than on physical strength, it is a particularly effective style for women, or men of a slight physical build, to train.

    Regarding trapping: if your opponent's hands are raised, you can trap them. If they disengage from trapping, you strike. If they punch, you block or intercept the punch. Are other martial arts more effective at this range? Sure, maybe. Wing Chun is just one way of doing it.

    I also doubt that planting your feet, ducking your head and swinging haymakers would be more effective for, say, a slender woman attacked by a would-be rapist, than a well-trained Wing Chun approach. Perhaps fighting fire with water is more effective in some situations?
  2. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/02/2013 7:00pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    5
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreykil View Post
    Sure, say, a slender woman attacked by a would-be rapist
    If only there where a series of martial arts that used leverage and timing. That where practiced with alivness and actually had a focus on what to do when in an inferior posistion.

    Oh wait their are and there mother art is Judo
  3. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/02/2013 7:57pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreykil View Post
    , a slender woman attacked by a would-be rapist, than a well-trained Wing Chun approach. Perhaps fighting fire with water is more effective in some situations?
    That's what BJJ is for not wing chun.
  4. ermghoti is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/02/2013 8:59pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ+Sanda

    4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreykil View Post
    BJMills - I agree the Wing Chun stance limits mobility and increases vulnerability to takedowns. However, it does allow power generation for intercepting or counter-punching.

    I agree that chain punches are weak in comparison to any boxing punch that isn't a jab. On the other hand, chain punches are faster and take the shortest route to the target area in bunches. They can unbalance or stun an opponent. Also, since their effect relies more on fast twitch muscle fibres (learning to expand and contract quickly) than on physical strength, it is a particularly effective style for women, or men of a slight physical build, to train.

    Regarding trapping: if your opponent's hands are raised, you can trap them. If they disengage from trapping, you strike. If they punch, you block or intercept the punch. Are other martial arts more effective at this range? Sure, maybe. Wing Chun is just one way of doing it.

    I also doubt that planting your feet, ducking your head and swinging haymakers would be more effective for, say, a slender woman attacked by a would-be rapist, than a well-trained Wing Chun approach. Perhaps fighting fire with water is more effective in some situations?
    Oh for ****'s sake do boxing. I mean actually do it. Twice a week for a month, eight lessons. It will cost like 30 GBP, and you'll either start to see the difference between what we are saying and what you are saying, or you're a lost cause.
    Quote Originally Posted by strikistanian View Post
    DROP SEIONAGI ************! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
  5. W. Rabbit is offline
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    insight combined with intel, fuse, and dynamite

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    Posted On:
    5/02/2013 9:47pm

    supporting member
     

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I like how you completely ignored me. Here we go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreykil View Post
    BJMills - I agree the Wing Chun stance limits mobility
    You're probably just doing it wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreykil View Post
    and increases vulnerability to takedowns.
    Doing it wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreykil View Post
    However, it does allow power generation for intercepting or counter-punching.
    What the **** do you know about power generation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreykil View Post
    I agree that chain punches are weak in comparison to any boxing punch that isn't a jab.
    What the **** are you talking about with "any boxing punch other than a jab".

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreykil View Post
    On the other hand, chain punches are faster
    Bullshit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreykil View Post
    and take the shortest route to the target area in bunches.
    Bullshit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreykil View Post
    They can unbalance or stun an opponent.
    Much like a single punch, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreykil View Post
    Also, since their effect relies more on fast twitch muscle fibres
    What the ****?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreykil View Post
    (learning to expand and contract quickly)
    Oh.

    What the ****?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreykil View Post
    than on physical strength,
    Right because it's all in the non-physical, fast twitch muscle fibre strength.

    What the ****?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreykil View Post
    it is a particularly effective style for women, or men of a slight physical build, to train.
    Name three women. Name one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreykil View Post
    Regarding trapping: if your opponent's hands are raised, you can trap them.
    Unless of course you try to trap them and fail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreykil View Post
    If they disengage from trapping, you strike.
    You're assuming they haven't already dropped your fucking ass to the floor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreykil View Post
    If they punch, you block or intercept the punch. Are other martial arts more effective at this range? Sure, maybe. Wing Chun is just one way of doing it.
    What if they don't punch, but instead grab both of your legs and send you to the floor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreykil View Post
    I also doubt that planting your feet, ducking your head and swinging haymakers would be more effective for, say, a slender woman attacked by a would-be rapist
    It'd probably work better than Wing Chun, but that ultimately depends on the person's Wing Chun. I believe good Wing Chun exists....but remains elusive because most Wing Chun is bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreykil View Post
    than a well-trained Wing Chun approach. Perhaps fighting fire with water is more effective in some situations?
    Here come the analogies.
  6. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/02/2013 11:32pm

    supporting member
     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    L
    looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong
    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreykil View Post
    BJMills - I agree the Wing Chun stance limits mobility and increases vulnerability to takedowns. However, it does allow power generation for intercepting or counter-punching.
    Can you describe WC power generation please?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreykil View Post
    I agree that chain punches are weak in comparison to any boxing punch that isn't a jab.
    On the other hand, chain punches are faster and take the shortest route to the target area in bunches. They can unbalance or stun an opponent. Also, since their effect relies more on fast twitch muscle fibres (learning to expand and contract quickly) than on physical strength, it is a particularly effective style for women, or men of a slight physical build, to train.
    Why on earth would a woman, or man of slight build learn arguably the least powerful techniques for striking? How could that possibly work in their favor? They are most likely already faster by virtue of their size. Surely what they need is disproportionate power for their size, yes?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreykil View Post
    Regarding trapping: if your opponent's hands are raised, you can trap them. If they disengage from trapping, you strike. If they punch, you block or intercept the punch. Are other martial arts more effective at this range? Sure, maybe. Wing Chun is just one way of doing it.
    If you move your hands from your own face to engage their hands, they can then punch you in the face with them. There's no matrix time allowance for you to then reverse your inertia and withdraw your hands to guard your melon in the same amount of time it takes them to just swing at you when your face emerges.

    Some medium-hard sparring will reveal this. Suddenly, the impulse to reach out and intercept strikes runs into the reality that a thinking person can pretend to strike one place, and punch you around your extended arms as you try to meet it.

    Jab-hook. Any art that doesn't have an answer for a jab hook, or other basic feinting is USELESS by its self.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreykil View Post
    I also doubt that planting your feet, ducking your head and swinging haymakers would be more effective for, say, a slender woman attacked by a would-be rapist, than a well-trained Wing Chun approach. Perhaps fighting fire with water is more effective in some situations?
    No. Weak strikes will just piss off someone who has their adrenaline up. That's why pressure testing, and aliveness in training/sparring are key.

    It's not how you behave when you are relaxed, it's how your training kicks in when you have been clocked, or are suddenly surprised. There's no time for fancy ****, and most likely someone hasn't even seen it coming, so your starting range may well be getting tackled.

    I've only ever held/thrown down/restrained my would-be attackers. The clinch work we were trained in, combined with mma sparring experience has served me well, when it comes to people who would do me harm. If I need the striking, it's there, but such was the emphasis on the clinch in SanDa, that I haven't had to.

    Have you seen youtube fights, where someone gets hit real hard, and reaches out to grab the other person, while eating more punches? That's what WC training seems to emphasize.

    The good schools need to stop riding the movie hero/legend nuts of WC, and call it something completely different. Body mechanics and the reality of kinetic linking disprove what's purported to be traditional WC theory.

    Any striking martial art that spars hard, and uses appropriate safety equipment, to properly allow said hard sparring is going to end up approaching kickboxing/MT, as that's where the work has been done to ass-kick one's way to the best.

    Train the way you fight, fight the way you train. That's the deal. There's no time for triangle stance or matrix forearm parry when there's some drunk idiot already having an arm under your leg, trying to bounce you off a wall, and tackle pound ur fac3.

  7. Azatdawn is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/03/2013 12:14am


     Style: Thaiboxing; MMA nb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreykil View Post
    Sure, maybe.
    Alright then.
  8. Kovacs is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/03/2013 1:54am


     Style: Kettles (MA hiatus).

    5
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Woah, woah, woah. He's citing WC as the anti-rape!?

    Dreykil you need to shut up right about fucking now!
    "Won't fight me in the ring? Don't fight me on the street."
    Paraphrased from Bullshido.

    "You can't judge Martial Arts until you feel the joy of kicking someone in the face and not go to prison for it."
    Mrs Kovacs.
  9. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/03/2013 1:54am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreykil View Post
    BJMills - I agree the Wing Chun stance limits mobility and increases vulnerability to takedowns.
    So lets take a quick look at the problem here. Likely to be taken down, does nothing to improve the situation on the ground. I have seen plenty of Wing Chun guys fall over while doing their striking alone. Do you not see how serious of a hole this is in your self defense game plan? To make matters worse you believe the ground to be an incredibly dangerous place to be ..... yet ..... you do an art that increases the odds of being on the ground and gives you no tools to deal with it when you are there.

    On top of that its striking isn't comparable to other striking arts that are less susceptible to being put on the ground.

    Seriously what is the appeal in all of this?

    Cause you can learn real boxing for cheaper, it's more effective or better yet learn Judo where you have a real good tool box for staying off the ground and getting back up off of it if you end up there. Also Judo fights at the bar room brawling range which seems to be where you biggest self defense concerns be.
  10. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/03/2013 2:25am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You guys aren't fucking listening, he has the real chun. How many logical fallp....erm situati....erm theories does he have to shi.....erm....deposi......erm describe for you to listen?

    GEEZ!
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