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  1. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/07/2013 12:42pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox View Post
    Actually, this kind of makes me wonder. What if some ke?po/whatever guy posted an anti guard video where he explained how to maintain good posture, kill your opponent's hip movement, trap an arm, and then gouge the eyes out?
    Combatives.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
  2. CrackFox is online now
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    You have to work the look.

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    Posted On:
    5/07/2013 1:15pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by DerAuslander View Post
    It'd be called Kina Mutai, and he'd be called a JKD instructor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Syphilis View Post
    It would be a great eye-gouging video, but really, eye-gouging is terrible from a self defense stand point in todays society.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel_tke View Post
    Combatives.
    I'm not really concerned with what it is called, or how valid it is to self defence.

    My question is more that if he did legitimately describe how to deal with the guard using dirty tactics, what would the angry BJJ meat-heads of the internet be able to say to him? Not much really. For one thing, you wouldn't get a video explaining how he was misunderstood, and he wasn't trying to do style vs style.
  3. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    5/07/2013 2:09pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox View Post
    My question is more that if he did legitimately describe how to deal with the guard using dirty tactics, what would the angry BJJ meat-heads of the internet be able to say to him? Not much really. For one thing, you wouldn't get a video explaining how he was misunderstood, and he wasn't trying to do style vs style.
    Videos like the theoretical one you're describing are usually like a Hannibal Lecter white belt explanation- they're usually so focused on the combatives part that the proper grappling part isn't so good. For example, I learned how to bridge and roll someone from a mount in kung fu but they never showed to trap their foot with yours before bridging. It usually still worked though because they weren't skilled at holding mount.

    But what if the technical parts were good because the guy had a backround in real grappling? Well there are a few vids like that actually.






    They generally don't get as much crap from grapplers, and rightly so, since they're not misunderstanding open vs closed guard when they're showing how easy it is to defeat it.
    Last edited by Permalost; 5/07/2013 2:12pm at .
  4. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/07/2013 2:29pm

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     Style: BJJ

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Point of order here.

    How good/bad of an idea is biting in a fight?

    Isn't there serious concerns of blood borne illness transmission with biting?

    Don't get me wrong in a life or death situation do whatever you absolutely whatever you have to do being sick is better than dead I suppose. At what point do you think one needs to cross that threshold in a fight?
  5. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    5/07/2013 2:38pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    How good/bad of an idea is biting in a fight?

    Isn't there serious concerns of blood borne illness transmission with biting?
    A few years ago I ran into a guy in Ocean Beach who I went to highschool with. He had recently gotten into a bar fight. He put the other guy in a headlock, and the guy started biting him, on the side of his torso and the guy's hand. In response, he held on and started punching the guy in the top of the head until his hand ballooned up.

    In situations or positions where you could bite someone, there's usually a better escape you could try that doesn't rely on the other guy letting go because of pain. When you cause someone pain in a fight, their reaction isn't as predictable as some would like. They might let go, they might crank harder, then might scream or start hitting you, they might bite you back. This is separate from the issue that you might also be getting a bloodborne pathogen and/or legal trouble, which is also worth considering.

    Recently there was an article where a female sailor disarmed a knife-wielding rapist by biting him, among other things. I wouldn't call it useless, but it is a desperation move.
  6. Mr. Machette is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/07/2013 2:47pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Isn't there serious concerns of blood borne illness transmission with biting?
    Yes, and I've personally taken a few solid hits from a skateboard because I wouldn't bite the filthy bum that was holding me down for his friend...

    My answer is "carry a knife" so you can deploy "teeth" that aren't in your mouth.
  7. Katje is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/07/2013 2:53pm


     Style: Escrima n00b

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Point of order here.

    How good/bad of an idea is biting in a fight?

    Isn't there serious concerns of blood borne illness transmission with biting?

    Don't get me wrong in a life or death situation do whatever you absolutely whatever you have to do being sick is better than dead I suppose. At what point do you think one needs to cross that threshold in a fight?
    That's a really difficult one to answer hey, because it depends hugely on the unique circumstances at that moment. It also depends on the individual, and when they decide things have got desperate enough to throw that kind of caution to the wind - and that will vary hugely from person to person.

    Another factor of course is the attacker and the environment in which you are being attacked. In South Africa, for instance, you absolutely do not want to bite anyone or even stab if you can avoid it, because of the prevalence of HIV and AIDS and other lovely things like hepatitis.

    It is very sad that illnesses can often spread very quickly through low economic class areas in any country, because of things like cramped living conditions, poor access to healthcare, contraception and hygiene facilities and things like poor diet or lifestyle. This in itself makes biting really risky, because even if they're unlikely to have HIV or AIDS they could have myriad blood or fluid borne diseases you'd be squirting right onto the permeable membranes inside your mouth.

    That's why I tend to laugh at styles that go "we don't need to teach you how to grapple, just bite your way out!" because they clearly haven't sat down and properly thought about it, and if they can't even envisage the consequences of their defences properly they've got no business teaching them to other people.
  8. Katje is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/07/2013 2:56pm


     Style: Escrima n00b

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    A few years ago I ran into a guy in Ocean Beach who I went to highschool with. He had recently gotten into a bar fight. He put the other guy in a headlock, and the guy started biting him, on the side of his torso and the guy's hand. In response, he held on and started punching the guy in the top of the head until his hand ballooned up.

    In situations or positions where you could bite someone, there's usually a better escape you could try that doesn't rely on the other guy letting go because of pain. When you cause someone pain in a fight, their reaction isn't as predictable as some would like. They might let go, they might crank harder, then might scream or start hitting you, they might bite you back. This is separate from the issue that you might also be getting a bloodborne pathogen and/or legal trouble, which is also worth considering.

    Recently there was an article where a female sailor disarmed a knife-wielding rapist by biting him, among other things. I wouldn't call it useless, but it is a desperation move.
    Well put Permalost. Biting also means that you're holding on to the person (otherwise it's just a nip, and they'll be like wtf? and then kick you in the teeth), so unless you manage to tear whatever your teeth are holding onto off the attacker it's going to leave your head stuck in a very vulnerable position.
  9. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/07/2013 3:02pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post

    In situations or positions where you could bite someone, there's usually a better escape you could try that doesn't rely on the other guy letting go because of pain. When you cause someone pain in a fight, their reaction isn't as predictable as some would like. They might let go, they might crank harder, then might scream or start hitting you, they might bite you back. This is separate from the issue that you might also be getting a bloodborne pathogen and/or legal trouble, which is also worth considering.
    That was kind of my thinking, its not a great escape tactic and to use it offensively you have to already be in a more dominant position at which point I am fairly certain you have a bunch of other good options.

    That being said there maybe? a situation where you need to finish the fight and move on real quick such as with multiple opponents or something? Can a human do enough damage with a nasty bite say to jugular to cause fight ending damage?
  10. DerAuslander is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/07/2013 3:37pm

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     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    5
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Point of order here.

    How good/bad of an idea is biting in a fight?

    Isn't there serious concerns of blood borne illness transmission with biting?

    Don't get me wrong in a life or death situation do whatever you absolutely whatever you have to do being sick is better than dead I suppose. At what point do you think one needs to cross that threshold in a fight?
    A physician once explained during a kina mutai seminar I attended:

    You bite in situations when it is absolutely life or death, not in situations where there are other, easier alternatives.

    For example, when you have an attacker in guard who you cannot quickly disengage from & terminate using means other than standard grappling while his comrade is about to rape your significant other.

    First, you eliminate the the percentage of the motivated criminal population who does not have HIV/AIDs. You are left with a statistically small population.

    You proceed to furth cull the herd by eliminating anyone who is not criminally motivated, does not have HIV/AIDs, and is not fit enough to engage in grappling training.

    Then you further cull from this herd anyone who is not criminally motivated, does not have HIV/AIDS, is not fit enough to engage in grappling, and is an extremely competent grappler, let's say a BJJ brown or above.

    So, essentially, you're worried about catching AIDs from a criminal who is fit enough and was disciplined enough to become a BJJ brown belt.

    Know any of those?

    Kina Mutai as a system is essentially "Jits+". There's no point training in it if you are not training and becoming relatively competent at grappling. Further, it is not biting to annoy, it is biting to maim, so you must consider it lethal force, the same as deploying a blade. You don't bite in a bar fight. You bite when your life is in danger. You don't bite in a situation where your opponent can respond, such as the often seen hamstring bite to escape from an arm bar. That's bullshit. You bite from positions where you can bite continuously and uninterrupted. You don't want to leave teethmarks on them. That's just going to piss them off. You want to tear off their entire cheek.

    So this is not for situations like this Bmore Kepo guy is talking about. Unless you are Jack Bauer, this is for life and death situations which you pray to god you never find yourself in, and you had better have trained your grappling, to give you options before biting, and to enable you to bite when you need to.

    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Point of order here.

    How good/bad of an idea is biting in a fight?

    Isn't there serious concerns of blood borne illness transmission with biting?

    Don't get me wrong in a life or death situation do whatever you absolutely whatever you have to do being sick is better than dead I suppose. At what point do you think one needs to cross that threshold in a fight?
    A physician once explained during a kina mutai seminar I attended:

    You bite in situations when it is absolutely life or death, not in situations where there are other, easier alternatives.

    For example, when you have an attacker in guard who you cannot quickly disengage from & terminate using means other than standard grappling while his comrade is about to rape your significant other.

    First, you eliminate the the percentage of the motivated criminal population who does not have HIV/AIDs. You are left with a statistically small population.

    You proceed to furth cull the herd by eliminating anyone who is not criminally motivated, does not have HIV/AIDs, and is not fit enough to engage in grappling training.

    Then you further cull from this herd anyone who is not criminally motivated, does not have HIV/AIDS, is not fit enough to engage in grappling, and is an extremely competent grappler, let's say a BJJ brown or above.

    So, essentially, you're worried about catching AIDs from a criminal who is fit enough and was disciplined enough to become a BJJ brown belt.

    Know any of those?

    Kina Mutai as a system is essentially "Jits+". There's no point training in it if you are not training and becoming relatively competent at grappling. Further, it is not biting to annoy, it is biting to maim, so you must consider it lethal force, the same as deploying a blade. You don't bite in a bar fight. You bite when your life is in danger. You don't bite in a situation where your opponent can respond, such as the often seen hamstring bite to escape from an arm bar. That's bullshit. You bite from positions where you can bite continuously and uninterrupted. You don't want to leave teethmarks on them. That's just going to piss them off. You want to tear off their entire cheek.

    So this is not for situations like this Bmore Kepo guy is talking about. Unless you are Jack Bauer, this is for life and death situations which you pray to god you never find yourself in, and you had better have trained your grappling, to give you options before biting, and to enable you to bite when you need to.

    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Can a human do enough damage with a nasty bite say to jugular to cause fight ending damage?
    Google will show you some very pretty pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Can a human do enough damage with a nasty bite say to jugular to cause fight ending damage?
    Google will show you some very pretty pictures.
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