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  1. atheistmantis is offline
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    Posted On:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vieux Normand View Post
    Only if they're lesbians themselves, and only if I get to watch.

    (If they're bowling-ball bulldykes, atheistmantis can watch instead.)
    It would be like watching lumberjacks get it on...yuck!
  2. JS_CD is offline

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    Posted On:
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    Nothing wrong with gay marriage. What goes on in the bedroom is between consenting adults.
  3. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
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    Quote Originally Posted by JS_CD View Post
    Nothing wrong with gay marriage. What goes on in the bedroom is between consenting adults.
    More to the point what goes on between consenting adults is going to happen if you allow them to marry or not.
  4. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorekara View Post
    I didn't read much of this thread. There is something to add from a "Christian" standpoint though.

    I believe in the Christian God.(I don't call myself a Christian, because, I would be hypocritical.) That said, I believe that there's many Christians that have a very skewed view of the Bible, and how we as believers should behave.

    A little research into a man named John Calvin, will bring some light to the subject. In very short, this man came up with a doctrine for biblical interpretation, government, and believer behavior. This is called the 5 points of Calvinism.

    One of the points, (the most important imho) states, "The Church is responsible for dictating the morals of society." You can all imagine what this means. This was only one man's ideas, and it spread, and got accepted. So, now, we have many believers that hold to that one point. They don't even realize it. It's such a convincing argument if you read more into it.

    Another point is what's called "The Great Commision." which is where Jesus told the Apostles, "Go into all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature that will hear it." For some reason, most Christians feel this was a command given them. Okay, that's fine, if you have something you love, you want to share it. However, this was not given to all believers, only the apostles. Infact, the Bible says later, that not all should be teachers, and some were reprimanded for trying to teach and screwing things up.

    Now, we get to Sodom and Gomorrah, we all know what happened there, and we all suppose why. Everyone assumes it's because of homosexuality, yet further research provides, that it was just an evil place, and the sexual part was merely a drop in the ocean.

    The Bible also says, the Governments are set up by God.

    So, now, let's put this together from the average Joe Christian. Since all of this has been spread in various ways, and various interpretations of the Bible, (regardless of what the Bible actually says) We get the Gay Marriage debate.

    See, Christians feel it's their duty to stop gay marriage. They feel they're doing God a service, and preserving an institution that God devised for man and woman. As the Bible states. Christians believe that if they "allow" gay marriage, then God will be angry,,,,,At THEM, because they failed. Since they failed to regulate and dictate the morals of society, then God will curse the country and destroy it just like Sodom. What's more, Christians think they'll be included in the destruction.

    What isn't realized in most average joe Christians, (those who don't study) is that, if the Bible states that God sets up the governments and the leaders, then, God must've set up the Constitution of the US. That being said, the Constitution gives the right to the pursuit of happiness, AND, the freedom of religion. This bothers me the most. I know people who actually believe the Constitution was set up for Christians, not any other religion. They don't understand, that, the reason Christians are looked down on is not because we're good people. Christians are looked down on for oppression of beliefs and religion. Now, they complain that Christians are losing rights, yet can't understand. The more freedom we allow others, the more freedom we'll have to believe and worship how we want.

    They also forget that the Bible says, if people don't want to hear what you have to say, dust your feet.

    The Bible also tells Christians, that "if any among you be immoral, etc, etc" cast them out from you, with such do not even eat. Yet they don't understand, that, this is for believers who claim it's okay to be immoral, and still claim to be a Christian. But, on top of that they forget that the Bible says, "If a brother is caught in sin, restore him gently."

    On top of all of this, the Bible says, nonbelievers aren't bound by the same "laws" (laws of God) as we are. Even in marriage. If a nonbeliever wants a divorce, it's okay. But, that's another topic.

    I hope through all this rambling people will understand the confusion and where the ideas come from that certain Christians seem to hold and express loudly and angry.
    I see what you're saying. My theological part of me wants to tell you to keep it in order but hey, whatever.
  5. atheistmantis is offline
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    Posted On:
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    Sorekara, you mention the US Constitution. In it we have "The Separation of Church and State". In your post you have referred to government many times, may I suggest you study up on two things? The writing of the Constitution, and Ancient Roman History.
  6. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
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    Quote Originally Posted by atheistmantis View Post
    Sorekara, you mention the US Constitution. In it we have "The Separation of Church and State". In your post you have referred to government many times, may I suggest you study up on two things? The writing of the Constitution, and Ancient Roman History.
    "Many" times? I think I only saw him mention the government directly twice. But whatever. He wasn't giving his standpoint from the government. He qualified his statement as giving a perspective from the Christian view point. And he also mentioned a couple times why he thought it was incorrect.

    Do you have anything specific you disagree with, about his view of why christians are against gay marriage? Because he also qualified the fact that it wasn't his view. So are your suggestions that he review the constitution and Ancient Roman History so that he could also write a piece about what the Roman's would have thought about gay marriage?
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  7. Permalost is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/07/2013 3:51pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by atheistmantis View Post
    Sorekara, you mention the US Constitution. In it we have "The Separation of Church and State".
    That phrase actually isn't in the constitution.
  8. atheistmantis is offline
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    Posted On:
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    To Diesel and Permalost, I was incorrect to say that The separation of church and state was in the constitution. However, in Thomas Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists Of 1802 he wrote:
    Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

    Again I was in error in my last post. My reference to ancient Roman history was meant to illuminate the existence of homosexuality before there was a name for the term.
  9. Cake of Doom is online now

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    Posted On:
    5/08/2013 5:06am


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    Quote Originally Posted by atheistmantis View Post
    My reference to ancient Roman history was meant to illuminate the existence of homosexuality before there was a name for the term.
    Yes, it existed in ancient Rome. Ancient Greece before that. It was fine as long as you were the "sword" and not the "sheath" and you didn't openly flaunt it in public [this is for the Romans, the Greeks were a bit more liberal].

    Elagabulus (Marcus Aurelius Antoninus Augustus after taking Imperial title) often referred to himself as his chariot drivers wife and queen and looked what happened to him.

    [/Roman pedantry]
  10. Cake of Doom is online now

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    Posted On:
    5/08/2013 6:03am


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    Can't edit my post so:-

    EDIT: The point being that homosexuality has never been wholly tolerated; the ancient world was never the big gay homotopia that hippies like to make it out to be and gays still couldn't marry so you'll have to find something else to reference.
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