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  1. goodlun is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete838 View Post
    Nothing like spending 50k on lawyers to fight over a dog, 25k worth of stuff, and a house with 2 mortgages. Our gay friends that can't marry don't realize how lucky they are lol.
    Yeah now lets look at the more realistic and common problem.

    So lets say we have Tom and Joe.
    Lets say Tom purchases a house.
    Lets say Tom and Joe start dating.
    Joe helps pay for the house maybe not even directly but pays for the groceries the new car whatever things that allow Tom to make the house payment much more easily.
    Lets say they live together and have a normal relationship for 20 years.
    Then they break up for whatever reason it happens(I know a number of people who have gotten divorced after 20+ years of marriage).
    Tom gets to keep all the equity in the house even though Joe has contributed equally to the overall financials.
    Joe has very little legal recourse and is pretty much just fucked.
    Sounds fair to me.
  2. Omega Supreme is offline

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  3. Pete838 is offline

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    gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    .

    So lets say we have Tom and Joe.
    Lets say Tom purchases a house.
    Lets say Tom and Joe start dating.
    Joe should have solidified his ownership stake at some point with a contract or through joint ownership. This happens in business all the time when there are trusting partners and the relationship degrades. Joe relied on love and trust rather than a having his name on the deed. Joe made a dumbass mistake. Sometimes dumbass mistakes are expensive.
  4. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete838 View Post
    Nothing like spending 50k on lawyers to fight over a dog, 25k worth of stuff, and a house with 2 mortgages. Our gay friends that can't marry don't realize how lucky they are lol.
    Really? Lucky? Don't mix dating with marriage. This is a rather self serving debate tactic and simplistic view. Do I need to get the child custody stories, the adoption stories, the asset stories, and loss of income stories? They CAN'T get married and lose all of the above with no recourse? No, I don't think that is lucky at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete838 View Post
    Joe should have solidified his ownership stake at some point with a contract or through joint ownership. This happens in business all the time when there are trusting partners and the relationship degrades. Joe relied on love and trust rather than a having his name on the deed. Joe made a dumbass mistake. Sometimes dumbass mistakes are expensive.
    LOL. So, your argument is one of exclusion. So, is this similar to "you should have been born white" to avoid the pitfalls of bigotry?
  5. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/01/2013 2:21pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete838 View Post
    Joe should have solidified his ownership stake at some point with a contract or through joint ownership. This happens in business all the time when there are trusting partners and the relationship degrades. Joe relied on love and trust rather than a having his name on the deed. Joe made a dumbass mistake. Sometimes dumbass mistakes are expensive.
    So your solution to marriage is instead of having one simple thing like a marriage certificate that we instead sit down with lawyers and draft up 100s of documents that marriage covers. Sounds like the perfect solution to me.

    Lets see here what would we call a couple sitting down and drafting up a contract to cover aspects of their relationship? Yep sounds like Marriage to me.

    So it doesn't sound like your anti-marriage to me you're just pro more paperwork and paying a lawyer tons of money.
  6. Pete838 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    So your solution to marriage is instead of having one simple thing like a marriage certificate that we instead sit down with lawyers and draft up 100s of documents that marriage covers. Sounds like the perfect solution to me.

    Lets see here what would we call a couple sitting down and drafting up a contract to cover aspects of their relationship? Yep sounds like Marriage to me.

    So it doesn't sound like your anti-marriage to me you're just pro more paperwork and paying a lawyer tons of money.
    Nonsense. Any titled property can be jointly owned and a contract is nothing but an agreement between two parties. It can be as simple or as complex as you want it to be. One sentence with two signatures can be a contract.

    How is two parties agreeing on something ahead of time preferable to losing your ass in a divorce court?
    I agree that custody issues can be sticky, but un married people have children, too, so custody isn't strictly a marriage issue. Something like 40% of children are born to unwed parents.

    I'm not advocating doing away with marriage entirely. Just stopping the government from defining what it is.
  7. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete838 View Post
    I agree that custody issues can be sticky, but un married people have children, too, so custody isn't strictly a marriage issue. Something like 40% of children are born to unwed parents.
    I didn't say custody issues in general, I was specifically addressing marriage custody rights and the GAY COUPLE.

    Do you need articles? If you think unwed custody is equal to, or similar to, gay custody you are sorely misinformed.
  8. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/01/2013 5:31pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete838 View Post
    Nonsense.
    No what is nonsense is your understanding of family law, as well as ignoring my post was about more than just property. As well as your response thus far to every right or responsibility that marriage grants has been well you can settle it with another form of legal method.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pete838 View Post
    Any titled property can be jointly owned and a contract is nothing but an agreement between two parties.
    Actually you are wrong. For a contract to be valid it does require a few things.

    The key thing that often times sinks a contract is the lack of consideration.
    There are other factors that make a contract valid or not.
    One is the contract actually has to be fairly specific leaving nothing to ambiguous for the courts to have to decide.
    A good contract writer will usually also have dissolution of contract terms in the contract.
    So its more than an agreement its an agreement that has legal ramifications.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pete838 View Post
    It can be as simple or as complex as you want it to be. One sentence with two signatures can be a contract.
    Simple contracts are pointless. You end up in court anyways with the court having to decide the specifics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete838 View Post
    How is two parties agreeing on something ahead of time preferable to losing your ass in a divorce court?
    The losing ones ass in a divorce while does happen is more trope than anything else. It is very rare for one party in a divorce to actually get more than 50% of assets. The biggest thing that screws guys tends to be child support.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete838 View Post
    I'm not advocating doing away with marriage entirely. Just stopping the government from defining what it is.
    The government has already established what marriage is. In this country it has always been established as a secular thing having to do with creating the rights and responsibilities of a couple who choose to enter this legal union. This union may also have significant religious that vary from couple to couple. At the end of the day we have laws that regulate marriage. As we have already demonstrated these laws are useful and needed especially at the dissolution of marriage.
  9. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete838 View Post

    I agree that custody issues can be sticky, but un married people have children, too, so custody isn't strictly a marriage issue. Something like 40% of children are born to unwed parents.

    I'm not advocating doing away with marriage entirely. Just stopping the government from defining what it is.
    You know what's cool? You are arguing for people not getting married. That's cool, because it is legal for people to no be married. But this thread is about people who DO want to get married but can't because it is not legal for them based on their sexual preference.

    So basically your stance is that gay marriage should not be legal because YOU think that no marriage should be legal? Thanks for that, but it is not reality. So why argue from such an asinine position?
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  10. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/01/2013 8:24pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete838 View Post
    Nonsense. Any titled property can be jointly owned and a contract is nothing but an agreement between two parties. It can be as simple or as complex as you want it to be. One sentence with two signatures can be a contract.

    How is two parties agreeing on something ahead of time preferable to losing your ass in a divorce court?
    I agree that custody issues can be sticky, but un married people have children, too, so custody isn't strictly a marriage issue. Something like 40% of children are born to unwed parents.

    I'm not advocating doing away with marriage entirely. Just stopping the government from defining what it is.
    Disneyland. Whooo I just defined marriage, **** the government.

    (This is your argument?)

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