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  1. blackmonk is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/26/2015 9:44am

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     Style: belt and jacket wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Sode Tsurikomi Goshi



    I started revisiting STG after seeing this kid Elliott hit a LOT of them during the Arnolds tournament a few weeks ago in Ohio.

    His success with it really interested me, because guys who I know that have fought him say that he isn't that strong, and most guys I know who work STG are incredibly overpowering. I assume this is because most people won't just let you jack their hands above their head willingly.

    So one thing that I noticed about Elliott's entry into STG is that he is drawing the sleeve outward, ie straightening uke's arm out forward, and then turning low into that available space, thus negating the need for impeccable timing or incredible strength. It is a cool adaptation IMO.

    I've started playing around with it myself during randori, and I've hit 6 or 7 in the last two days of practices against reasonably good players. I've used the entry that Elliott did above, but also reaching for a two-on-one and turning for a reverse seoi nage grip, then picking the leg from there. The seoi nage grip is much, much tighter and faster, but I don't see the opportunity for it as often as I do the sleeve grip.
  2. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    3/26/2015 11:30am

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackmonk View Post


    I started revisiting STG after seeing this kid Elliott hit a LOT of them during the Arnolds tournament a few weeks ago in Ohio.

    His success with it really interested me, because guys who I know that have fought him say that he isn't that strong, and most guys I know who work STG are incredibly overpowering. I assume this is because most people won't just let you jack their hands above their head willingly.

    So one thing that I noticed about Elliott's entry into STG is that he is drawing the sleeve outward, ie straightening uke's arm out forward, and then turning low into that available space, thus negating the need for impeccable timing or incredible strength. It is a cool adaptation IMO.

    I've started playing around with it myself during randori, and I've hit 6 or 7 in the last two days of practices against reasonably good players. I've used the entry that Elliott did above, but also reaching for a two-on-one and turning for a reverse seoi nage grip, then picking the leg from there. The seoi nage grip is much, much tighter and faster, but I don't see the opportunity for it as often as I do the sleeve grip.
    I guess Sode Tsurikomi Goshi is as good a name as any for what he was doing. At the most, they are henka (variations) on the theme. His method is similar to what was being done in Judo before rule changes first about diving straight over onto your own head (somersault) was clarified, then against leg grabbing. It's quite dangerous to dive/jump straight over like that, if uke blocks/drives him into the tatami, serious injury could result. So please proceed with caution if you are getting that acrobatic with the finish.

    He caught one of them when the only grip he had was a sleeve grip, so was able to make the entry, it was a surprise attack. That's one way to avoid the strong resistance you get to raising uke arm up over his head.

    On that theme, one of my judo coaches (Jacque Legrand, RIP), back in New Orleans, taught a couple of action-reaction methods to overcome resistance to moving uke arm in STKG. One was similar to what was in the video you posted.

    1.) Get sleeve control if you can. Uke grip on your lapel makes it harder to do (no ****, eh?), but not impossible. Especially if you are super strong...
    2.) Action-reaction
    a.) Push-pull action on uke sleeve before attempting the entry. For example, you have sleeve control, push towards uke, if you get a push reaction, pull towards you, then proceed with the entry.
    b.) So it goes like push-pull-lift, or pull lift (uke pulls back), etc. c.) You can also do it like in the video, push inside, get reaction, pull outside, then lift.
    d.) You can improve all of that by not just using arm/upper body strength...combine with hip movement or whole body tai sabaki to back it up
    3.) Surprise/Distraction - You can do as in the video and catch uke unawares, so to speak, so that he does not have time or attention to react to the arm "lift". Combinations, feints, transition during or from a flurry
    4.) Finally, there is the so-called "Sode Seoi Nage" in it's different variations, where you turn holding uke sleeve and load him on your upper back. This negates the need to "lift" uke arm.

    One note on STKG in general, is that lowering your body as you turn makes it much less necessary to lift uke arm high. Which was in the video.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  3. blackmonk is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/26/2015 2:55pm

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     Style: belt and jacket wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sode tsurikomi goshi is what I've always heard it called, even though it doesn't look like the very traditional type I learned when I first started judo.

    The action/reaction entry makes a lot of sense... The problem that I had when I first started trying this throw a couple of years ago was simply getting uke's arm up, and I was so focused on that part of the throw that it never really worked. It eventually made me dismiss STG as bullshit or adventurous, since it didn't seem realistic to push someone's grip off the lapel (the way I was taught). Furthermore, gripping underneath the wrist, as I was taught, was like a huge, flashing red light pointing to that throw... HEY I'M ABOUT TO THROW YOU WITH THIS ONE TECHNIQUE. Same with getting double sleeves and doing a traditional j-step entry.
  4. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/26/2015 3:32pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackmonk View Post
    Sode tsurikomi goshi is what I've always heard it called, even though it doesn't look like the very traditional type I learned when I first started judo.

    The action/reaction entry makes a lot of sense... The problem that I had when I first started trying this throw a couple of years ago was simply getting uke's arm up, and I was so focused on that part of the throw that it never really worked. It eventually made me dismiss STG as bullshit or adventurous, since it didn't seem realistic to push someone's grip off the lapel (the way I was taught). Furthermore, gripping underneath the wrist, as I was taught, was like a huge, flashing red light pointing to that throw... HEY I'M ABOUT TO THROW YOU WITH THIS ONE TECHNIQUE. Same with getting double sleeves and doing a traditional j-step entry.
    I think that what exactly the guy in your video did is named isn't so important as how to better use the sleeve throw. That was my point, I don't want to get lost in the typical judo-esque nomenclature BS. As much fun as it can be...

    I think the Sode Seoinage probably "evolved" from people trying to do STKG, and failing for the reasons you note.

    If you have good sleeve control, then it's not so much of a red flag. You can also hold under the elbow and do that kind-of-odd wrist rotation thing to get into position to push.

    If uke is good at keeping his elbow down, STKG is tough to pull off...regardless.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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