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  1. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    4/22/2013 2:12pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by franginho View Post
    What BKR said,
    There are a ton of different chokes and there are tiny little twists to each and every one of them that will make you just THAT much more effective.

    Spoiler:
    For example (and those are just some points that helped ME! with some of my favorite chokes)
    RNC: flex your biceps, slice their head with the hand behind their neck, tighten while they breath
    Cross Collar: Curl your hands, elbows close to your own chest
    Triangle: Rotate your foot out, heel down/stomp
    Tightening while they breathe out works very well in osaekomi as well. One of those "secrets", along with not tensing up your whole body when on top.

    RNC (Hadaka Jime) is uncommon in Judo due to not being able to pry up the head and no hands on face rules. I've gotten a few guys with it in shiai, and the first guy I ever choked out all the way was a RNC, although not the variation with the hand/arm behind uke head.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  2. NeilG is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/22/2013 3:21pm


     Style: Kendo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    RNC (Hadaka Jime) is uncommon in Judo due to not being able to pry up the head and no hands on face rules. I've gotten a few guys with it in shiai, and the first guy I ever choked out all the way was a RNC, although not the variation with the hand/arm behind uke head.
    We don't even teach it in our dojo. Too much potential for injury with yahoos, and we're a recreational joint.
  3. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    4/29/2013 7:20pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    We don't even teach it in our dojo. Too much potential for injury with yahoos, and we're a recreational joint.
    I don't teach it as a first shime waza because then that's all they try, Hadaka Jime, and ignore the much richer environment of the "collar" shime.

    So I teach it to more advanced students and let them decide how much emphasis they want to give it.

    I agree, the potential for neck cranks is high, especially with the mae version.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  4. goodlun is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/29/2013 8:38pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I like the bow and arrow over the rnc for what it is worth.
  5. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    4/30/2013 2:54pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    I like the bow and arrow over the rnc for what it is worth.
    You see that style of entry more in Judo for sure. The shime itself is either Katate Jime, i think. Although I've heard it called Okuri Eri Jime as well. We were working on it last weekend.

    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    I like the bow and arrow over the rnc for what it is worth.
    You see that style of entry more in Judo for sure. The shime itself is either Katate Jime, i think. Although I've heard it called Okuri Eri Jime as well. We were working on it last weekend.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  6. NeilG is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/30/2013 4:07pm


     Style: Kendo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    I don't teach it as a first shime waza because then that's all they try, Hadaka Jime, and ignore the much richer environment of the "collar" shime.
    Speaking of those, random thought - what's the Japanese name for the necktie choke? That's what we call it in our dojo where you grab both collars with one hand and then just keep tightening it up by pulling one of them through with the other hand.
  7. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    4/30/2013 5:43pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    Speaking of those, random thought - what's the Japanese name for the necktie choke? That's what we call it in our dojo where you grab both collars with one hand and then just keep tightening it up by pulling one of them through with the other hand.
    I've never seen that in the Kodokan curriculum, although I've had it done to me standing. usually resulted in uke getting thrown fairly quickly. Don't the do something like that in some koryu ju jutsu?

    In general anything done with one hand is kata te, but who knows in your example?

    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    Speaking of those, random thought - what's the Japanese name for the necktie choke? That's what we call it in our dojo where you grab both collars with one hand and then just keep tightening it up by pulling one of them through with the other hand.
    I've never seen that in the Kodokan curriculum, although I've had it done to me standing. usually resulted in uke getting thrown fairly quickly. Don't the do something like that in some koryu ju jutsu?

    In general anything done with one hand is kata te, but who knows in your example?
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  8. NeilG is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/30/2013 5:50pm


     Style: Kendo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've used it in newaza but it only really works on someone who hasn't seen it before. It can sneak up on you.
  9. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    4/30/2013 7:06pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    I've used it in newaza but it only really works on someone who hasn't seen it before. It can sneak up on you.
    If do right, no can defend!

    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    I've used it in newaza but it only really works on someone who hasn't seen it before. It can sneak up on you.
    If do right, no can defend!
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  10. Wing-Kwan-Fu is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/30/2013 9:55pm


     Style: Standup, Ground-fighting

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    ...it only really works on someone who hasn't seen it before.

    I'm not good with the RNC, but this is definitely wrong. It does seem that there are guys with necks too strong to succumb to non-collar chokes, but high-level grapplers are routinely caught in RNCs.

    Also, I am skeptical about the role of the vasovagal response in "blood chokes". I want to see some fMRI...
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