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  1. franginho is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/02/2013 6:43am


     Style: JiuJistu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Okay, lets get at it...
    1) Two instructors are okay, as long as they don't contradict themselves. I have had several different instructors during my TKD time (we had one for SelfDefense, one for Form, one for Competition, one for ibotherio/ilbotherion/sambotherion etc.) Worked nicely.
    2) The difference between ITF and WTF are, from what I can remember, WTF uses Poomse ITF uses "palke" (not sure about spelling and stuff, it has been years).
    And then there is the entire competition rules thing that also lead to minor differences in technique (dollyo chagi being one that is a good example).
    Some ITF schools go for that sinus form stuff but from my humble stand point, it is bullshit.
    3) TKD has some self defense stuff, at least it had when I trained (this usually goes for grading) and depending on your school and teacher there can be more or less. Many TKD teachers also dabble in Hapkido which will add more Self Defense.

    As for all this being applicable in a real situation... you will fight like you train. So if you all train like sissys you will fight like sissys. My training was, luckily, very versatile with folks cross training a lot and teachers having all kinds of backgrounds. So I took a lot out of it. TKD is nice for sports and should help in a SD situation but it is not the end to it all.
    Hope that helped. For more questions about TKD I would suggest you venture into the style forums and ask there :D
  2. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    5/02/2013 7:30am

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     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Corum Irsei View Post
    Also, this is a vague question, but how can I make Taekwondo into something more practical?
    You can't. If you are looking for practical training, and your dojang is not teaching that way, leave. Your dojang is providing X and you want Y.

    Decide what it is you want out of martial training, and then go get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Corum Irsei View Post
    Also, this is a vague question, but how can I make Taekwondo into something more practical?
    You can't. If you are looking for practical training, and your dojang is not teaching that way, leave. Your dojang is providing X and you want Y.

    Decide what it is you want out of martial training, and then go get it.
  3. W. Rabbit is offline
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    insight combined with intel, fuse, and dynamite

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    Posted On:
    5/02/2013 12:45pm

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     Style: (Hung Ga+BJJ+MT+JKD) ^ Qi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Corum Irsei View Post
    Anyway, here's my reason for visiting the forum: how can I be more efficient? Any tips on and off the dojang? Since it is only twice a week, I feel that I need to also do some research and training during my off-days. However, I only can do it in the confines of my apartment because a gym is out of the question and I do not have time to take up another discipline.
    Welcome to Bullshido.

    You are not really confined to your apartment are you? There are a million free or mostly free things you could do outside your apartment to get stronger arms and legs.
  4. Corum Irsei is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/07/2013 3:05am


     Style: Taekwondo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by franginho View Post
    Okay, lets get at it...
    1) Two instructors are okay, as long as they don't contradict themselves. I have had several different instructors during my TKD time (we had one for SelfDefense, one for Form, one for Competition, one for ibotherio/ilbotherion/sambotherion etc.) Worked nicely.
    2) The difference between ITF and WTF are, from what I can remember, WTF uses Poomse ITF uses "palke" (not sure about spelling and stuff, it has been years).
    And then there is the entire competition rules thing that also lead to minor differences in technique (dollyo chagi being one that is a good example).
    Some ITF schools go for that sinus form stuff but from my humble stand point, it is bullshit.
    3) TKD has some self defense stuff, at least it had when I trained (this usually goes for grading) and depending on your school and teacher there can be more or less. Many TKD teachers also dabble in Hapkido which will add more Self Defense.

    As for all this being applicable in a real situation... you will fight like you train. So if you all train like sissys you will fight like sissys. My training was, luckily, very versatile with folks cross training a lot and teachers having all kinds of backgrounds. So I took a lot out of it. TKD is nice for sports and should help in a SD situation but it is not the end to it all.
    Hope that helped. For more questions about TKD I would suggest you venture into the style forums and ask there :D
    Will get to the other replies later..

    1. Yeah, so far they don't contradict themselves and if there are parts where the mannerisms slightly differ based on personal style, the senior instructor usually gives an explanation (e.g. easier for beginners/kids/first-timers to remember and pick up).

    2. But it doesn't necessarily mean that one style is inferior to the other (in a self-defense standpoint), right? What is a "sinus form stuff"?

    3. Now, I understand where you are coming from.. Even though TKD is a combat and survival art in the inherent sense of the word, the self-defense training I'll be getting out of it will ultimately depend on my instructor - his instruction and his style + whatever he picked up along the way. Used to have a naive view on it when I was younger (i.e. knows martial art = knows how to fight). And I've learned quite a lot while conversing with my instructors. Will also plug my reply to DerAuslander here because I feel that it also covers the subject. Originally, my three main reasons for (re)taking TKD are self-defense, sentimentality, and familiarity. When I meant practical, I just wanted to know how can I best apply it outside the dojo - in the real world. Of course I am not after a South Korean Military Intent-to-kill style of TKD, but I want something that is more than just a "sport", "hobby", or "means of staying fit". Told this to them and, ever since, we've been having a 15 min period after class to talk about and demo certain other self-defense techniques. It isn't part of the curriculum per se, but it gives me the time to ask sd-related questions like, "what do I do if I get grabbed from behind", etc... and they get to show it to me and teach me the basics. They said it was ok since it is an evening class and we are all adults so it is only right that I get so much more than junior training. It also opened up another door, because those wrist locks they taught me, they learned from another instructor in the dojang who "rents" it twice a week to teach MMA. Is that what is meant by crosstraining? Anyway, they told me that they can integrate that with the lessons every after class so that I could become well-rounded. I don't know what they meant by "we can only teach you little ground defense in TKD" but they said that and they said that I can train with the other instructor to get some MT (I don't know what that is) and Brazilian Jiu-jitsu moves when I feel that I am comfortable with my primary technique (which is of course the reason why I came there in the first place).

    And I am good with making TKD my foundation and then add it up with others. But it brings me to this question. Is TKD and BJJ and mt(?) a good combination, with TKD as primary? To the guys who crosstrain, how is it done: be good in your art and go up against other arts? train simultaneously in two arts? or train hard in one and incorporate techniques to fill the gaps? Also, will it be confusing to simultaneously learn kicking/punching with grappling? Any tips? Of course, for now, I am content with the 15-minute sessions, but in the future, I plan to do what my instructors suggested.

    Thanks again, and yes it helped!
  5. DerAuslander is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/07/2013 6:55am

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     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Why do you care what people you have never met on the Internet think about your training which they cannot see and cannot experience with people they do not know?

    Why do you care what people you have never met on the Internet think about your training which they cannot see and cannot experience with people they do not know?
  6. Corum Irsei is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/07/2013 7:54am


     Style: Taekwondo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DerAuslander View Post
    Why do you care what people you have never met on the Internet think about your training which they cannot see and cannot experience with people they do not know?
    Because, despite this being the internet, where I'm more likely to run into trolls or people who exaggerate/malign/flat-out don't give a hoot, there is the off chance that I get that genuine piece of unbiased opinion or suggestion. Like I said, I am new to this and have yet to come across people who are in the same boat (or have gone through the same boat and then some) as I am.

    If you need me to be specific, then let's focus on one area, for example. Crosstraining. How do I know which arts are synergistic or antagonistic to TKD? If I were an instructor or if I ran or owned a dojo, then I'd have the time to experiment on which style is best for TKD and having to work with and learn two styles at the same time wouldn't be a problem because I am already comfortably advanced and intimately familiar with one. Sadly, my job, priorities and other distractions limit me from moving along at an insane and more dedicated pace, so I am taking a long shot here. There are things you learn from books, there are things you learn from instruction, there are things you learn from experience, and there are things you can learn online. If I am able to enumerate even just 3 things from this, then I'd say my time in these forums was worth it.
  7. DerAuslander is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/07/2013 10:09am

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     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Corum Irsei View Post
    How do I know which arts are synergistic or antagonistic to TKD? If I were an instructor or if I ran or owned a dojo, then I'd have the time to experiment on which style is best for TKD and having to work with and learn two styles at the same time wouldn't be a problem because I am already comfortably advanced and intimately familiar with one.
    Do you trust your current instructor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Corum Irsei View Post
    How do I know which arts are synergistic or antagonistic to TKD? If I were an instructor or if I ran or owned a dojo, then I'd have the time to experiment on which style is best for TKD and having to work with and learn two styles at the same time wouldn't be a problem because I am already comfortably advanced and intimately familiar with one.
    Do you trust your current instructor?
  8. DCS is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/07/2013 10:09am

    Join us... or die
     Style: 柔道

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Corum Irsei View Post
    If you need me to be specific, then let's focus on one area, for example. Crosstraining. How do I know which arts are synergistic or antagonistic to TKD?
    It depends.

    Broad generalization follows:

    If you want to be a better striker Kickboxing (American Rules) has more compatibility with a TKD-WTF style background than other striking arts like Muay Thai.

    If you are after increasing your self defense skills, you need to complement your striking with some art for the clinch-throw-grapple in the ground elements. I suggest Judo or its derivatives: BJJ or Sambo.
  9. legomepanda is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/07/2013 4:11pm


     Style: grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I trained in TKD for a little over 4 years. I loved it and enjoyed every minute of it. I was extremely dedicated, I trained outside of class, I got videos on sparring techniques and drilled them in my basement. I felt really comfortable in my fighting ability, and wanted to take it to the next level. I found a school that had amatuer and pro fighters, joined, and let the instructor know my intention to compete. The first time I sparred one of their fighters I got knocked out. He didn't even mean to. However, while he was training to hit people really hard with his fists, I had trained myself to often turn sideways and drop my hands. Not to mention the myriad of other bad habits that I had formed.

    The point I'm making here is that you seem to be really interested in self defense. Despite years of focused training in a martial art I was still a terrible fighter, with huge holes in my striking, which was what I was training. If you're taking TKD because it's fun, physical and challenging, good. If you want to be able to handle yourself in a fight, you're going to need to fight. Often and with force.

    DCS has some good suggestions. Kickboxing, MT (Muay Thai kickboxing, if you're still wondering) are good for striking. Judo, BJJ, Sambo are all good for grappling. I would also suggest Boxing, since that is specifically what TKD lacks.
  10. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    5/07/2013 5:40pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Corum Irsei View Post
    My kicks are still crappy, since age robbed me of my flexibility, but I was assured that with the proper stretches (on-and-off the dojang), I'd get my form back.
    Stretching is part of it, the other part is your leg muscles and kicking dynamics. I recommend kicking at a high target to develop high kicks over just static stretching to kick higher.

    We are now only two in a class, as the third student felt the training routine was too slow and kept saying that after more than 8 sessions, we should already be preparing for yellow.
    He was concerned that after 8 sessions he should have a new belt by now? HA!

    is it ok to have 2 instructors? Not at the same time, but I noticed our instructors usually alternate every 2 sessions.
    I don't see any problem with that.

    Second, is WTF okay in a practical setting? I asked the type of TKD they were teaching and I was told that it was WTF. After doing some internet browsing, I've noticed that the majority swear by ITF and only say that WTF is for the Olympics. Is the difference in style that great?
    It will be useful if you think about training method more than techniques in a vacuum. Do you practice against an opponent who's really trying to hit you, and will continue doing so without a ref stepping in whenever there's real contact?

    Third, I brought up the self-defense issue with my instructors and was surprised when they alloted the last quarter of the session to teaching me simple techniques that I didn't know Taekwondo had.
    If self defense is your main focus, are you okay with having it only be 1/4 of what you work on?

    one self-defense form involved holding the attacker's hand and chopping the neck.
    How did you practice this?
    We were taught that we could also grab a different area and knee them in the gut or hit them in the shin.
    How do you practice this?
    Last week, we were introduced to a wrist lock and twist (?) move for when an assailant puts his arm around you feigning friendship but just wants to keep you from running away. These two for now until we get them right, though. Also the other instructor taught us how to hold a bag or laptop so that we could use it as a weapon when our hands are encumbered.
    Are you actually putting on gear and trying to get each other, or are you sitting cross-legged in a circle nodding your head that it would probably work? The latter is like learning weight lifting in a lecture hall- you may learn the right things to say and the theory behind the art, but you can't apply martial arts with intellectual knowledge alone.

    Finally, to answer Permalost's question, yup, there is a kicking shield and a kicking pad. No punching bag though. I was told, however, that I could practice my blocks and punches on a wooden post if I had no partner to work with.
    I suppose you could, but if your mechanics are good you won't be able to hit with power without hurting yourself (except for kicks maybe). A big advantage of kicking shields etc is that you can use them for interactive drilling with a partner- they can move, strike, and present the target in a way that a post can't simulate.

    Now, my question is.. What is the verdict on Wolff's Law here? I am not sure which to believe and I am quite paranoid with my hands since I am a dental hygienist and the last thing I need is arthritis.
    Anecdotally, there are plenty of people here who do hard object conditioning and don't have arthritis or other problems. There are old karate masters who also claim to not have any dexterity problems. I karate chop at a kettlebell on a chain as part of my training. Of course, the plural of anecdotes isn't data.
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