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  1. #21
    Soldiermedic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDA View Post
    Yeah sure , in fact why do we even have weight classes? If a 155lb guy is ok fighting a 265lb guy just let them do it right?
    The slippery slope argument? Really!?

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Machette View Post
    Kind of hard to argue away that Y chromosome, just sayin'...

    I'm not arguing whether Fallon maintains a Y chromosome; I must not be making myself clear.
    SRS and corresponding hormone treatment will never change your chromosomal composition. There is no argument there. Fallon will always be XY (or whatever specific karyotype profile she is; intersex compositions can complicate the typical XX or XY profiles but yes, lets assume she's strictly 46, XY).

    As see it, there are two discussions going on, one being different from the OP's original topic.

    A1: Should a transgender male to female compete with non-operative females in MMA promotions? That discussion is why I posted all those links. This first discussion should be objective and based on scientific information (which according to the various sources there isn't much research or scientific information on this particular topics in the first place).

    A2: Should we, as a society or as individuals, acknowledge, and therefore refer, to a transgender person with the gender THEY identify as? This discussion is purely subjective. Is Fallon genetically male (again, assuming the 46, XY karyotype normative of males)? Yes, she is a genetic male. And yes, semantically, one could refer to her as 'he', 'him', etc.

    However, in MY personal opinion, you are a total douche bag if you, even with all the information out there regarding transgender issues and the related, still insist on referring to Fallon, or any other transgender, as their genetic gender. They should be referred to as the gender they IDENTIFY with not what you or anyone else is more comfortable with identifying them as or if you are comfortable with their transition but then insist on semantics, you're even more of a tool.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by tgace View Post
    Since when are we allowed to BE whatever we SAY we are? No offense..I'm not implying that gender switching surgery shouldn't be allowed..but sex is genetically assigned, not bolted on parts we can decide to switch at will. This is a Man who has been medically altered to appear as close to a woman as our science will allow.
    As Azatdawn alluded too, genetic sexual classification and gender identity are two different concepts and should not be confused as one and the same.

  4. #24

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    I identify as a Dwarf. I've done everything to make myself as close to a Dwarf that modern science allows and now demand that everyone recognize me as a Dwarf. Because I was born a man, but now I'm a Dwarf.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by legomepanda View Post
    I identify as a Dwarf. I've done everything to make myself as close to a Dwarf that modern science allows and now demand that everyone recognize me as a Dwarf. Because I was born a man, but now I'm a Dwarf.
    You underwent surgery and years of hormone therapy to resemble a dwarf? Okay.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by animlmthr View Post
    I'm not arguing whether Fallon maintains a Y chromosome; I must not be making myself clear.
    SRS and corresponding hormone treatment will never change your chromosomal composition. There is no argument there. Fallon will always be XY (or whatever specific karyotype profile she is; intersex compositions can complicate the typical XX or XY profiles but yes, lets assume she's strictly 46, XY).

    As see it, there are two discussions going on, one being different from the OP's original topic.

    A1: Should a transgender male to female compete with non-operative females in MMA promotions? That discussion is why I posted all those links. This first discussion should be objective and based on scientific information (which according to the various sources there isn't much research or scientific information on this particular topics in the first place).

    A2: Should we, as a society or as individuals, acknowledge, and therefore refer, to a transgender person with the gender THEY identify as? This discussion is purely subjective. Is Fallon genetically male (again, assuming the 46, XY karyotype normative of males)? Yes, she is a genetic male. And yes, semantically, one could refer to her as 'he', 'him', etc.

    However, in MY personal opinion, you are a total douche bag if you, even with all the information out there regarding transgender issues and the related, still insist on referring to Fallon, or any other transgender, as their genetic gender. They should be referred to as the gender they IDENTIFY with not what you or anyone else is more comfortable with identifying them as or if you are comfortable with their transition but then insist on semantics, you're even more of a tool.
    Whooh! Way to whip around that PHD. (Sorry couldn't help myself).

    Ironically, even though I honor anybody's request to refer to them as any specific name or sexual gender, I can't condone Fallon fighting although my opinion comes out of ignorance and conjecture rather than harden facts. <Insert training as a male before sex change, testosterone vs steroid issue etc here.>

  7. #27
    tgace's Avatar
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    Should an MMA governing body be making decisions based on the genetic definition or on PC social conventions?

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by tgace View Post
    Should an MMA governing body be making decisions based on the genetic definition or on PC social conventions?
    Yes, it's part of the oppressive part of freedom.

  9. #29
    Mr. Machette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animlmthr View Post
    However, in MY personal opinion, you are a total douche bag if you, even with all the information out there regarding transgender issues and the related, still insist on referring to Fallon, or any other transgender, as their genetic gender. They should be referred to as the gender they IDENTIFY with not what you or anyone else is more comfortable with identifying them as or if you are comfortable with their transition but then insist on semantics, you're even more of a tool.
    Quote where I said she is not allowed to identify as female or that we should not refer to her as female. In fact a poat where I denigrate Fox's gender identity at all.

    Find that quote in this or any other thread. It should be easy, you can search my post history through my profile.

    I gurantee you it isn't there.

    You confuse someone pointing out a minor flaw in your original (unedited) argument with full on trans-phobia. That makes you the "douche bag" here, douche bag.

    Fox is free to be who Fox is IMHO. It's the dishonesty I take issue with. Though I do understand the social pressure she is under to keep here medical history secret.

    If we lived in a world where everyone is as excepting as you and I, she would not be subject to such prejudice. It makes me kind of sad that she felt she hdd to lie in the first place and I know why she did it. (It's the same reson this discussion has been brought up and the very issue that is upseting you.) That, however only explains the ruse. It does not excuse it.

    FWIW, I think Mitrione is an effing moronic ape for saying what he said in public. JMHO.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Machette View Post
    Quote where I said she is not allowed to identify as female or that we should not refer to her as female. In fact a poat where I denigrate Fox's gender identity at all.

    Find that quote in this or any other thread. It should be easy, you can search my post history through my profile.

    I gurantee you it isn't there.

    You confuse someone pointing out a minor flaw in your original (unedited) argument with full on trans-phobia. That makes you the "douche bag" here, douche bag.

    Fox is free to be who Fox is IMHO. It's the dishonesty I take issue with. Though I do understand the social pressure she is under to keep here medical history secret.

    If we lived in a world where everyone is as excepting as you and I, she would not be subject to such prejudice. It makes me kind of sad that she felt she hdd to lie in the first place and I know why she did it. (It's the same reson this discussion has been brought up and the very issue that is upseting you.) That, however only explains the ruse. It does not excuse it.

    FWIW, I think Mitrione is an effing moronic ape for saying what he said in public. JMHO.
    Although she quoted you I don't believe the last paragraph was really directed at you personally; more like a general statement.

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