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  1. Wounded Ronin is offline
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    ...is THE PENETRATOR

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    Posted On:
    3/19/2015 3:01pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    British cops tase knifeman

    So, I just happened to watch this footage on YouTube where some cops in London taze what appears to be a mentally disturbed man with a knife: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFddlI9QHJk

    To be honest, I felt a moment of "oh ****" while watching the film because it appears that the mental health guy is on his feet for a couple of seconds after he has been tazed and is waddling towards the officer. In this instance, things went OK, because the guy went down without hurting anyone, but for a moment there, it looked like he was about to get close to the officer while wielding his knife. Maybe he was already being affected by the taser since he was waddling instead of charging. If the guy had had a gun he probably would have had time to fire at least one round.

    I haven't used a taser before but my impression of them was that if the hooks land properly you have immediate incapacitation. In this case, why would that not have happened? Would it have to do with placement of the hooks on the mental health guy? The insulating effect of clothing?
    Last edited by Wounded Ronin; 3/19/2015 3:36pm at .
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  2. slamdunc is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/19/2015 3:24pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wounded Ronin View Post
    If the guy had had a gun he probably would have had time to fire at least one round.
    An uncooperative subject with a knife is on the same level (lethal) of the use of force continuum as a gun; the London officers were already at a disadvantage. The outcome was good, only by some dumb luck.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wounded Ronin View Post
    I haven't used a taser before but my impression of them was that if the hooks land properly you have immediate incapacitation.
    Ideally, this is true.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wounded Ronin View Post
    In this case, why would that not have happened? Would it have to do with placement of the hooks on the mental health guy? The insulating effect of clothing?
    One of the probes may not have made contact initially, there could have been an clothing or air-gap issue which corrected itself as the subject moved forward. The Taser will arc through two inches (cumulative) clothing, but the incapacitation isn't immediate as it would be if both probes penetrated and had a good spread.
  3. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    3/19/2015 3:27pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wounded Ronin View Post
    So, I just happened to watch this footage on YouTube where some cops in London taze what appears to be a mentally disturbed man with a knife: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFddlI9QHJk

    To be honest, I felt a moment of "oh ****" while watching the film because it appears that the mental health guy is on his feet for a couple of seconds after he has been tazed and is waddling towards the officer. In this instance, things went OK, because the guy went down without hurting anyone, but for a moment there, it looked like he was about to get close to the officer while wielding his knife. Maybe he was already being affected by the taser since he was waddling instead of charging. If the guy had had a gun he probably would have had time to fire at least one round.

    I haven't used a taser before but my impression of them was that if the hooks land properly you have immediate incapacitation. In this case, why would that not have happened? Would it have to do with placement of the hooks on the mental health guy? The insulating effect of clothing?

    First off, the cop walked within easy range of the guy with the knife, got his attention.

    Second off, he was too close for optimal spacing of the darts.

    Third off, he shot him from in front, when he could have stayed at a distance and shot him from behind, which is optimal and safer for everyone involved. Of course, this happened because he looked like he was trying to get around behind the guy...by walking right by him within lunge range.

    To me, it looked like he didn't hit him with the TASER right away...I'd say he went down when he got hit.

    If the darts are too close together, the incapacitation effect is smaller. Point blank shot is turns it into more of a "drive stun" which hurts like hell but won't necessarily put a guy down.

    He did go down right away once the darts were in, which is what it looked like to me, more or less.

    Glad nobody got hurt all the same.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  4. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/19/2015 3:29pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've been TASER ed by an optimal shot, as a demo at TASER certification. In the back, darts about a foot apart or so, one in the upper middle back on one side, the other in the lower middle back on the other side.

    No way was I doing anything but falling down, LOL !
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  5. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/19/2015 3:33pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by slamdunc View Post
    An uncooperative subject with a knife is on the same level (lethal) of the use of force continuum as a gun; the London officers were already at a disadvantage. The outcome was good, only by some dumb luck.
    Ideally, this is true.
    One of the probes may not have made contact initially, there could have been an clothing or air-gap issue which corrected itself as the subject moved forward. The Taser will arc through two inches (cumulative) clothing, but the incapacitation isn't immediate as it would be if both probes penetrated and had a good spread.
    Yeah, he would have likely gotten shot here in the good old US of A.

    We had a case recently in Sandpoint, Idaho of a knife wielding woman who was shot instead of TASERed. Cop had his TASER out, she came forward, he saw the knife, he got out his handgun, and when she kept coming forward, she got hit by one cop with an M-4 and the handgun.

    Local idiots thought they should have gone hand to hand with her. After all, cops have the deadly H2H, right ?

    Neither cop was charged, rightly so. Oh, and she was drunk and cranked up and out, too.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  6. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/19/2015 4:36pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There were armed police on scene, this was right in front of Buckingham Palace there's loads of police everywhere armed and unarmed and of course there's the Queen's Guard behind the gates.

    I think young copper (YC) thought he saw a chance to be a hero and grabbed it.

    You can see YC circle around Mr Crazy at the start of the video and Mr Crazy turns, so he has his back to YC. I think YC then came over all have a go hero and decided to taze Mr Crazy while his back was turned.

    After Mr Crazy goes down you see a second copper in a dark jacket come in from the left , he has a tazer drawn and when they focus in the footage later once Mr Crazy is down you can clearly see him and at least one other policeman have holstered hand guns.



    I suspect they had a containment and a disarmament/ neutralisation plan, you can see the mounted police have already formed a cordon, but that YC went off script.
  7. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/19/2015 4:55pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    There were armed police on scene, this was right in front of Buckingham Palace there's loads of police everywhere armed and unarmed and of course there's the Queen's Guard behind the gates.

    I think young copper (YC) thought he saw a chance to be a hero and grabbed it.

    You can see YC circle around Mr Crazy at the start of the video and Mr Crazy turns, so he has his back to YC. I think YC then came over all have a go hero and decided to taze Mr Crazy while his back was turned.

    After Mr Crazy goes down you see a second copper in a dark jacket come in from the left , he has a tazer drawn and when they focus in the footage later once Mr Crazy is down you can clearly see him and at least one other policeman have holstered hand guns.



    I suspect they had a containment and a disarmament/ neutralisation plan, you can see the mounted police have already formed a cordon, but that YC went off script.
    I thought I saw a holstered handgun and another holstered TASER. At one point, there was a guy behind the perp with something in a holster...If it was a TASER, he could have gotten a good shot in.

    YC trying to be a hero... Well, let's see if that happens. If that were the case, somebody is going to get an ass-chewing or worse.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  8. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/19/2015 5:16pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    I thought I saw a holstered handgun and another holstered TASER. At one point, there was a guy behind the perp with something in a holster...If it was a TASER, he could have gotten a good shot in.

    YC trying to be a hero... Well, let's see if that happens. If that were the case, somebody is going to get an ass-chewing or worse.
    Nah, this is the Met we're talking about. They never admit mistakes and never take responsibility.

    YC may have got a bit of an internal bollocking, but nothing further than that.

    The incident is actually nearly 2 years old and the Met played up their use of tasers as not only being tactically correct, but justifiable and restrained.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ears-jail.html

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-in-court.html

    For context as to how close to Buckingham Palace this was and the obviously high level of security there was around, here's a photo of the cordoned off incident scene

  9. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/19/2015 5:16pm

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  10. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/19/2015 5:39pm

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    Seems to me that a criminal in the UK could get a lot of mileage out one of these
    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence
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