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  1. patfromlogan is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/09/2013 12:23am

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     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    Since this thread is probably a bust, here's a more specific karate/mma question that's related but probably also doesn't deserve its own thread:

    Have any of you karatekas used shuto strikes in MMA sparring to good effect?
    I haven't but one time, years ago, in a cage fight some guy was being taken down with a double leg and as he flew back he did a double shuto to the attacker's neck. The attacker was KO'd or near KO'd and was candy. So I did see this once. But it's like karate techniques I like to do attacking the legs of the shooter - it CAN work.
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  2. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    4/09/2013 7:48am

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     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    Since this thread is probably a bust, here's a more specific karate/mma question that's related but probably also doesn't deserve its own thread:

    Have any of you karatekas used shuto strikes in MMA sparring to good effect?
    I'll occasionally use them in the clinch.
  3. W. Rabbit is offline
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    insight combined with intel, fuse, and dynamite

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    Posted On:
    4/09/2013 11:21am

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    When snake attacks it has to be quick, certain, and powerful, or else the crane will catch the snake in its talons and break it.
  4. Matsukaze is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/09/2013 12:32pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Hayashi-Ha Shito-Ryu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    Are you talking about karate inward/outward/upward forearm blocks?






    .
    Yep, but its not so limited in my experience. I've used them with slap blocks, clearing techniques, parries... I think the shuto might be one of my favorite things as its so versatile. You can even throw a good, long punch, and have the strike set up before it connects to use it as a follow up.
  5. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    4/09/2013 1:40pm

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     Style: Kakutogi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorin-ken View Post
    A lot of people think MMA is invincible and Okinawan Karate is useless but I've seen MMA's greatest flaw time and time again. Like Bruce Lee studying boxing videos I notice that most Mixed Martial Artists tend to get real tense while fighting (other than Lyoto Machida and Anderson Silva who are very relaxed and sometimes loose). Another thing I noticed is almost all of them tend to always fight directly at their opponent; in a straight line. That however can be avoided if (with perfect timing and elusive footwork) you move out of the way by rotating both your shoulders and your hips at the same time. The secret is to avoid the tackle which is a move that often seen as MMA's most signature but near impossible to defend against. The secret is to keep moving out of the way in a style of footwork widely used in Kung Fu. Elusive footwork is probably the best way to defend against wrestling moves like tackling. But if he does manage to drag you to the ground just relax and become loose that way it will be easier to worm your way out of a kimura or choke hold. Grappling is one thing but stand-up is even more dangerous since fighters tend to loose themselves while exchanging blows. If he knows Muay Thai, Boxing, Kyokushin or all of the above then don't be afraid to use knees and elbows since Okinawan Karate does include techniques very similar to Muay Boran. Well those are my opinions on using Classical Karate against Modern Combat Sports and if you want you could use Tuite just in case you want to tap him out.
    I considered taking this seriously and pointing out why you are wrong however it would be far more entertaining watching you troll.
    ______
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    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
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  6. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    4/09/2013 1:57pm

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     Style: Kakutogi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by patfromlogan View Post
    I haven't but one time, years ago, in a cage fight some guy was being taken down with a double leg and as he flew back he did a double shuto to the attacker's neck. The attacker was KO'd or near KO'd and was candy. So I did see this once. But it's like karate techniques I like to do attacking the legs of the shooter - it CAN work.
    Sounds like a Mongolian Chop and I believe it can work because I've been on the receiving end.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  7. Galope is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/09/2013 3:36pm


     Style: Kempo Karate, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shorin-ken View Post
    A lot of people think MMA is invincible and Okinawan Karate is useless but I've seen MMA's greatest flaw time and time again. Like Bruce Lee studying boxing videos I notice that most Mixed Martial Artists tend to get real tense while fighting (other than Lyoto Machida and Anderson Silva who are very relaxed and sometimes loose). Another thing I noticed is almost all of them tend to always fight directly at their opponent; in a straight line. That however can be avoided if (with perfect timing and elusive footwork) you move out of the way by rotating both your shoulders and your hips at the same time. The secret is to avoid the tackle which is a move that often seen as MMA's most signature but near impossible to defend against. The secret is to keep moving out of the way in a style of footwork widely used in Kung Fu. Elusive footwork is probably the best way to defend against wrestling moves like tackling. But if he does manage to drag you to the ground just relax and become loose that way it will be easier to worm your way out of a kimura or choke hold. Grappling is one thing but stand-up is even more dangerous since fighters tend to loose themselves while exchanging blows. If he knows Muay Thai, Boxing, Kyokushin or all of the above then don't be afraid to use knees and elbows since Okinawan Karate does include techniques very similar to Muay Boran. Well those are my opinions on using Classical Karate against Modern Combat Sports and if you want you could use Tuite just in case you want to tap him out.
    Kinda arrogant don't you think?
  8. Fatal Rose is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/10/2013 2:18pm


     Style: Shotokan, San Soo etc

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tetsumusha View Post
    I train in Okinawan karate, and I love it as much as the next karateka, but you seriously need to do some MMA-rules sparring with contact--it doesn't have to be full contact, but you need to at least come out with some bruises when you're done. Yes, good footwork and stances can be used to defend against single- and double-leg takedowns, but it's not easy if your opponent is good, and if beating a skilled grappler on the ground was as simple as "be relaxed" and "worm your way out" then nobody would need to train in grappling.

    Traditional Okinawan karate most certainly has a wide variety of great techniques, and it does include striking and grappling components, but it isn't a complete fighting system--especially when you are fighting a trained opponent. That's why karate masters of old cross-trained all the time, and most of them had reputations as excellent grapplers in tegumi (tegumi is the predecessor to modern shima, or "Okinawan sumo", and included groundwork and submissions). Karate was MMA more than 100 years before the UFC, and somehow that idea started going away sometime in the 1930's and when Shotokan blew up it disappeared almost completely.

    If you want to be a truly traditional Okinawan karateka, train your karate with intent, study and drill practical kata applications, and cross-train to fill in the gaps. I jumped into judo for about 4 years and regularly integrate that into my karate to supplement my takedowns, takedown defense, and groundwork, and we spar with MMA-rules and medium contact to get a feel for what works and what doesn't. My instructor has done cross-training in Japanese jujutsu and BJJ, and regularly brings that into classes and sparring, as well. If I didn't have that judo experience, I can tell you that I would be in some serious trouble on the ground, relaxed or not.
    /thread.

    Okinawa karate has the potential to hang with or better any style in stand UP. but it does not have an comprehensive ground game.
  9. Tetsumusha is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/11/2013 10:41am


     Style: Karate, w/ a side of judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    What about more sport-friendly targets that would still suck to get chopped in?


    Either outward or inward shuto to the neck, though, is generally going to clash into a MMA fighter's guards though, being square facing with the hands up. There are those entries where you parry and pass to the other hand to open up the backhand shuto, but I'm kinda skeptical about those against a real fighter who will throw their other hand as you try this. So, I'm not really asking if a shuto to the neck will hurt, I'm wondering how likely it is to land on a modern fighter.

    Hammerfists are certainly used in MMA, but generally while on the ground, not standing. Shutos certainly share similarities with hammerfists, but you pretty much never see them outside of Sakuraba antics.
    A shuto to the temple or jaw doesn't feel great. It really doesn't matter too much whether the hand is open or closed for those targets, though. The difference between a hammerfist and a shuto is really just fitting the hand to the target--biomechanically they are nearly identical.

    When I use them in sparring it's usually part of breaking a clinch (guard not in place) or part of a blitz, and when I blitz I tend to trap the hands which opens up their guard for the shuto or a straight punch. I do some of that parry-and-pass trapping that you mention, and it works fine if you are faster than your opponent, but mostly I do simple lead-hand trapping--I like to fight in an open-faced stance to my opponent for that reason.

    I haven't had any trouble applying that trapping against martial artists from other disciplines when we have open sparring events at my dojo, but I usually use straight punches with my trapping. Shuto strikes aren't something I use frequently in sparring, but that isn't to say they can't work. I would want to work them a lot more than I do in sparring if I was going to really get into pro-level competitive fighting, though.
  10. Fuzzy is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/11/2013 10:58am


     Style: FMA/MMA/HEMA noob

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yaw-yan loves its hammerfists (bolo punches).

    I've had some small success with them in sparring, though generally I prefer throwing them at a steeper, more diagonal angle than shuto strikes, although they're the same slashing motion.
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