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  1. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/08/2013 2:54pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Iscape View Post
    Mine is not that serious in any way, bit of live blade work and some full contact h2h stuff..
    What was the average number of stitches that were needed after sparring? What kind of blade were you using?
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
  2. JingMerchant! is online now
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    ...has all your Jing.

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2013 3:00pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, baby! Yeah!

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    They would then proceed to not step into the cage.
    Well of course! The cage is completely unrealistic environment and bears no relation to real fighting. Within it's cosy wire walls, one is safe from knives, needles and rabid pitbulls.
    "So, yeah, Zen teachers may well insult you, work you to the bone, hit you with sticks, shout verbal abuse at you, and punch the **** out of you.
    And when the ****'s been punched out of you, you might just find that you're far better-off without it." - Vieux Normand

    "So in short, BJJ wins again. BJJ, and chainmail." - TheMightyMcClaw

    "On bullshido, your opinions are not sacred, neither are your feelings." - Scrapper

    "You entered the lions' den. Don't bitch if you get eaten." - danniboi07

    "Needless to say, it's much easier to clear a bunch of drunk kids out of your house when you're yelling GTFO and carrying a samurai sword." - DerAuslander

    "Eventually, I realized it doesn't matter what art you train, what matters is the method in which you train. Training in an alive manner, under skilled and qualified instruction, is the single most important aspect of gaining martial skill. All else is window dressing." - JNP : Saying it how it is!
  3. Iscape is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2013 4:32pm


     Style: Satanist and BJJ noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JingMerchant! View Post
    Well of course! The cage is completely unrealistic environment and bears no relation to real fighting. Within it's cosy wire walls, one is safe from knives, needles and rabid pitbulls.
    Yeah sure Cage fighting is real fighting, just like boxing etc Its a great test of skill, strength and fitness for people who want to test themselves that way and there is definitely a strong sense of the warrior spirit in all full contact arenas. But it is a totally different animal to real life confrontations. There's none of that surprise and uncertainty about if it is going to kick off or not, and generally in the street people will go for that big hay-maker stuff that can be taken advantage of more easily if you can dodge it effectively. In my experience Systema and Taijutsu have that in common - to apply the techniques you need to disrupt the person in 3 ways -
    Break their form
    Break their balance
    Break their train of thought/intention/spirit
    It is impossible to do some of the more interesting work with a stable and resisting opponent so the point is you have to break them down first.
    Thats defo much harder to do in the ring with a trained and determined fighter who is evenly matched and playing by the same rules as you.
    Saying that my kick boxing sparring success and confidence greatly improved after about a month of systema... It didn't really feel like I was doing a lot different, just ended up landing a lot more solid punches. And a friend of mine who still trains with Bujinkan is a very effective bare knuckle boxer. Like I said before I'm looking to get back into that side of things, hence taking up BJJ and MMA and also making sure my training group gets a taste for sparring and full intent+full speed work (bjj gi, mitts, gum shield and head gear arrived today :)
  4. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/08/2013 4:38pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Iscape View Post
    Yeah sure Cage fighting is real fighting, just like boxing etc Its a great test of skill, strength and fitness for people who want to test themselves that way and there is definitely a strong sense of the warrior spirit in all full contact arenas. But it is a totally different animal to real life confrontations. There's none of that surprise and uncertainty about if it is going to kick off or not, and generally in the street people will go for that big hay-maker stuff that can be taken advantage of more easily if you can dodge it effectively. In my experience Systema and Taijutsu have that in common - to apply the techniques you need to disrupt the person in 3 ways -
    Break their form
    Break their balance
    Break their train of thought/intention/spirit
    It is impossible to do some of the more interesting work with a stable and resisting opponent so the point is you have to break them down first.
    Thats defo much harder to do in the ring with a trained and determined fighter who is evenly matched and playing by the same rules as you.
    Saying that my kick boxing sparring success and confidence greatly improved after about a month of systema... It didn't really feel like I was doing a lot different, just ended up landing a lot more solid punches. And a friend of mine who still trains with Bujinkan is a very effective bare knuckle boxer. Like I said before I'm looking to get back into that side of things, hence taking up BJJ and MMA and also making sure my training group gets a taste for sparring and full intent+full speed work (bjj gi, mitts, gum shield and head gear arrived today :)
    Okay so, we have the "street" argument.
    We have the "my TMA friend is" appeal to authority.
    That the ring negates certain things.

    No, it isn't "definitely harder."

    Break their form
    Break their balance
    Break their train of thought/intention/spirit
    It is impossible to do some of the more interesting work with a stable and resisting opponent so the point is you have to break them down first.
    Thats defo much harder to do in the ring with a trained and determined fighter who is evenly matched and playing by the same rules as you.
    If you don't do this in ANY art you train the style you picked or your instructor sucks. Yes, it can be both.
  5. KickPuncher is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2013 4:38pm


     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ

    4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Iscape View Post
    Yeah sure Cage fighting is real fighting, just like boxing etc Its a great test of skill, strength and fitness for people who want to test themselves that way and there is definitely a strong sense of the warrior spirit in all full contact arenas. But it is a totally different animal to real life confrontations. There's none of that surprise and uncertainty about if it is going to kick off or not, and generally in the street people will go for that big hay-maker stuff that can be taken advantage of more easily if you can dodge it effectively. In my experience Systema and Taijutsu have that in common - to apply the techniques you need to disrupt the person in 3 ways -
    Break their form
    Break their balance
    Break their train of thought/intention/spirit
    It is impossible to do some of the more interesting work with a stable and resisting opponent so the point is you have to break them down first.
    Thats defo much harder to do in the ring with a trained and determined fighter who is evenly matched and playing by the same rules as you.
    Saying that my kick boxing sparring success and confidence greatly improved after about a month of systema... It didn't really feel like I was doing a lot different, just ended up landing a lot more solid punches. And a friend of mine who still trains with Bujinkan is a very effective bare knuckle boxer. Like I said before I'm looking to get back into that side of things, hence taking up BJJ and MMA and also making sure my training group gets a taste for sparring and full intent+full speed work (bjj gi, mitts, gum shield and head gear arrived today :)
    Completely honest question, then: you're saying that because people in teh str33tz aren't as proficient at fighting than those in the ring, you should aim your training bar lower in order to deal with haymakers, double-handed chokes and the like? Why not be prepared to fight someone that does know how to fight rather than assuming you'd be facing an untrained and undetermined assailant?
  6. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2013 4:41pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Iscape View Post
    Yeah sure Cage fighting is real fighting, just like boxing etc Its a great test of skill, strength and fitness for people who want to test themselves that way and there is definitely a strong sense of the warrior spirit in all full contact arenas. But it is a totally different animal to real life confrontations. There's none of that surprise and uncertainty about if it is going to kick off or not
    It's not a totally different animal. Its like a lion compared to a tiger or something. I'd rather have an experienced tiger fighter in a lion fight than the theoretical lion fighting champ.
    Saying that my kick boxing sparring success and confidence greatly improved after about a month of systema... It didn't really feel like I was doing a lot different, just ended up landing a lot more solid punches.
    -Were you also doing kickboxing training during this moth?
    -Did you hold your arms low and noodley, systema style?
    -Were you using systema casting punches or conventional kickboxing punches?
    a friend of mine who still trains with Bujinkan is a very effective bare knuckle boxer.
    Do you mean he does well in bare knuckle boxing matches? What's his record? Does he box with Bujinkan techniques? Vids?
  7. Iscape is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2013 4:57pm


     Style: Satanist and BJJ noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KickPuncher View Post
    Completely honest question, then: you're saying that because people in teh str33tz aren't as proficient at fighting than those in the ring, you should aim your training bar lower in order to deal with haymakers, double-handed chokes and the like? Why not be prepared to fight someone that does know how to fight rather than assuming you'd be facing an untrained and undetermined assailant?
    Indeed, train for both... and don't let them out in a RL situation if they tap.... seen that too.
  8. lionknight is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/08/2013 5:21pm


     Style: Much striking, SAMBO, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Iscape View Post
    Indeed, train for both... and don't let them out in a RL situation if they tap.... seen that too.
    So can YOU tell us specifically how YOU would train differently for the "str33t" as opposed to the "CagE" ???
  9. Iscape is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2013 5:22pm


     Style: Satanist and BJJ noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    It's not a totally different animal. Its like a lion compared to a tiger or something. I'd rather have an experienced tiger fighter in a lion fight than the theoretical lion fighting champ.

    -Were you also doing kickboxing training during this moth?
    -Did you hold your arms low and noodley, systema style?
    -Were you using systema casting punches or conventional kickboxing punches?

    Do you mean he does well in bare knuckle boxing matches? What's his record? Does he box with Bujinkan techniques? Vids?
    Nice big cat metahpor - yes, defo test and challenge yourself in all areas of life in which u want to succeed.
    Kickboxing - yes I was training there but mainly bag work, the main bit I remember was me sparring with a guy who was training for a tournament, him kicking my ass then a month later me taking him to pieces... I left that gym cos the instructor brought his GF once and she was watching him spar me, he pretty much lost it and was raining punches on me. I kicked him pretty hard in the junk, stopped him quite effectively, but admittedly I don't think he was on crack.
    Systema limp wristed noodle style - nope conventional guard for the most, but I would get told off for walking rather than shuffling. In systema we don't use a guard that much cos u don't generally walk around like that all the time, but obviously it's proven in the ring and useful in some street situations. We teach a 'hand's up' defensive posture for some work, but sometimes guarding up to early can 1. alert ure opponent that u might know what ure doing and 2. escalate a situation that might not have gone physical.
    Systema Punching wise, when done effectively the fists and elbows flow interchangeably and im not sure elbows were in for those ones, anyway 1 month is defo not long enough to get good at that. Vladimir uses the whip like and wave strikes a lot more than Mikhail, I think its just what suits their body types. What really amazes me with Vlad is the ability to hit 2 or 3 areas of the opponent in the 1 striking action, I will post up some of those ones if you anybody hasn't seen them.
    And yes my friend does compete, pretty illegal tho tbh and he is quite an upstanding member of the community, but I will see if he has any footage I can share. Success wise.... that's how he pays for all his trips to Japan :)
  10. Iscape is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2013 5:25pm


     Style: Satanist and BJJ noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lionknight View Post
    So can YOU tell us specifically how YOU would train differently for the "str33t" as opposed to the "CagE" ???
    Yeah get out and train outdoors, in cars, in tight spaces, on steps, alleys, mud, snow in the water - anywhere really but be careful about people misunderstanding and calling the police on ya... and if you make any vids, make sure there are trees in the back ground ;)
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