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  1. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/02/2013 2:08pm

    Business Class Supporting Memberstaff
     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    An individual who appears to be Sam Osman posted this on Sherdog:

    Well, here's what went down. Promotion time comes around and I submit my application to my instructor after being told to do so. Things are going well and we had a rough outline of a reasonable deal. Fees were negligible and I'd teach a couple classes, patch up, all that good stuff. That settles the affiliation and team issue. He goes to see Carlson directly for lunch or dinner to get the Federation side of things wrapped up. When he returns, all of a sudden the fee is 4000 dollars to square the paper work away. Now, he managed to negotiate this down to 2000, over the course of dinner, but still... Thats not exactly 400 and his initial request was 4k. Now, its possible to mishear a thick brazilian acccent, so I checked around and apparently, the 4k fee is common knowledge and other black belts have either paid, talked their way out of it or simply let their affiliation lapse

    Now, I don't KNOW that thats what's happened in this gentleman's case, but such policies and procedures are sure to cause trouble amongst the upper ranks. Now, its quite possible that I'm either gravely mistaken or quite the liar, so as long as we have actual employees of the Federation here, perhaps they could shed some light on this issue? Is there a 4000$ fee at some level of Federation membership? Does refusal to pay said fee affect promotion and the ability to promote one's students?
  2. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/02/2013 2:10pm

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     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    He's subsequently been corrected that it was $400, and just to get listed on a website.

    I'm thinking this is pretty much over, aside from the lingering dirty looks Mr. Osman is going to feel at tournaments for a while.
  3. lukerawks is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/02/2013 2:29pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost View Post
    He's subsequently been corrected that it was $400, and just to get listed on a website.

    I'm thinking this is pretty much over, aside from the lingering dirty looks Mr. Osman is going to feel at tournaments for a while.
    More info coming in over the holiday weekend. Apparently, a wife, friend, or family member has started flaming the comments from the podium photo (where the accusation was first made) and the conversation has gotten a little ad hominem as of late.

    Facebook Photo/comments

    On Sunday, we have a comment to the thread added by Scott Schilling, the bjj instructor who allegedly promoted Sam to his black belt stating that an official statement will be released regarding this situation.
  4. lukerawks is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/02/2013 2:34pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There's a difference, no reason to split hairs just to play devil's advocate, IMO. Granted, I'm still a BJJ noob, so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but look up any interview with any high-level BJJ instructor on what the difference is between a brown and black belt.

    There are also really good white belts out there that compete against complete newbies in competition, but a blue belt showing up with a white belt on would still be frowned upon.

    At the end of the day, you work your entire life to put a black belt on, on the day I am promoted to black belt (providing that things go correctly for me and my training) I will never remove it for another rank for the rest of my life.

    **EDIT - that was supposed to be a reply to Honest_truth's post
  5. CrackFox is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/02/2013 3:44pm

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     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So I see someone on the facebook post foe this thread saying you can't compete at black belt unless you are officially registered as a black belt. Is this true? If this is the case, and he was promoted and not registered it looks like he's been done over a bit.

    Of course, there shouldn't be belt divisions at major competitions in the first place.
  6. submessenger is offline
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    Transmaniacon MC

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    Posted On:
    4/02/2013 3:57pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox View Post
    So I see someone on the facebook post foe this thread saying you can't compete at black belt unless you are officially registered as a black belt. Is this true? If this is the case, and he was promoted and not registered it looks like he's been done over a bit.

    Of course, there shouldn't be belt divisions at major competitions in the first place.
    My understanding is that there are two parts; first, your academy must be IBJJF recognized/affiliated/whatever. I think this has been the rule for a while.

    Over a year ago, I heard rumblings that you need your personal IBJJF card at the black belt level. I believe this is a one-time $35 fee, but I'm not a black belt so I don't know for sure. I did get my white belt card, a while back, but haven't bothered to get my blue belt card, yet. The rumor is that IBJJF is going to start working downhill towards all players needing to get their card.

    I, as a *white belt newb* at least had an inkling of this. That's my point, above, about dude having 3+ months to get this taken care of.
  7. lukerawks is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/02/2013 4:15pm


     Style: BJJ

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox View Post
    So I see someone on the facebook post foe this thread saying you can't compete at black belt unless you are officially registered as a black belt. Is this true? If this is the case, and he was promoted and not registered it looks like he's been done over a bit.

    Of course, there shouldn't be belt divisions at major competitions in the first place.
    He had not been "done over" one bit, given the evidence. Competing in the Pans is a major financial and logistical undertaking. You have to plan lodging, car, flight, tournament entry fees, registration, etc. To try to say he was the victim of some red tape from the governing body is a little intellectually dishonest given the current situation. Why is it all of the honest competitors' problem that he has some sort of beef with the governing body? Why did they all have to suffer because of his ego? If you can't make the cut, wait til next year, you're not entitled to compete in a lower level because things didn't work out at your actual rank...right?

    You keep saying this thing about belt divisions and how they shouldn't exist. Why do we even separate MA tournaments by style? Why don't we just meet in the back alley and brawl it out until one man is declared a winner?
  8. CrackFox is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/02/2013 4:25pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lukerawks View Post
    To try to say he was the victim of some red tape from the governing body is a little intellectually dishonest given the current situation.
    The situation right now sounds like it's a little different to some red tape, but I'm trying to figure out how these things are usually done.

    Quote Originally Posted by lukerawks View Post
    You keep saying this thing about belt divisions and how they shouldn't exist. Why do we even separate MA tournaments by style? Why don't we just meet in the back alley and brawl it out until one man is declared a winner?
    You're going to have to explain to me what you are saying here, because right now this doesn't make any sense to me.
  9. Necroyunus is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/02/2013 8:58pm


     Style: BJJ and MT at the moment

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I wonder if the people who are so careful on this incident are also following all the bjj guys that are being held back from promotions just to win tournaments.

    We talk about rules and all but he could have done the exact same thing by talking to his instructor, letting him take the belt after the tournament. I heard there are many black belt level purple belts in the world being held back just for the tournaments.

    Maybe getting the belt levels out of the way in big tournaments IS the solution. Or maybe you have just two classes like brown-black and purple and below etc.
  10. lukerawks is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/03/2013 6:06am


     Style: BJJ

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox View Post
    You're going to have to explain to me what you are saying here, because right now this doesn't make any sense to me.
    What I'm saying re: belt levels at competition is that I think it's something important to have, because we'll all agree that there's a HUGE difference between a blue belt and a purple belt in most cases. Yes, there is a fringe of high blue/low purple that are close, but most instructors are promoting based on skill and understanding of technique as displayed through rolling/sparring. It's not like x hours plus test on y and z techniques equals new belt, as in some martial arts.

    Not to put too fine a point on it, but my whole thing about competition at lower belt levels boils down to building world class competitors. If you want to be a world champion black belt, it would surely help that you go to world class comps at lower belt levels and competed against others with the same path. Hell, most of the time you'll be competing with the same folks over the years as you all are on the same ranking trajectory, right?

    If this sport is going to keep growing, novices have to have the opportunity to compete as they are in the lower ranks against folks of the same rank. It's the only way to truly find out where the holes are in your game and what your game is naturally evolving to be. If you don't have that, then you would have to train for almost a decade to even hope to be competitive, right? Where's the motivation in that if you're just starting out?
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