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  1. lukerawks is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/29/2013 8:44am


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Brown Belt gold medalist at the Pan Ams controversy



    Not sure if anyone else has seen the commotion on Facebook as of yet, but here's what I can gather so far:

    • Sam Osman competes (and wins) at the Pans in the Brown Belt Master Medium Heavy division.
    • Omar Sabha (the silver medalist from the same division) comments on the photo with a link to a Facebook post from December of last year, which is Sam's instructor (Scott Schilling)promoting him to black belt.
    • All hell breaks loose.


    Here's the facebook photo in question, I hope this link works.

    Here's the photo from the promotion.

    Mods, if these links are crap, or if this is the wrong forum for this, my apologies.

    What do you guys think about the story? Haven't seen a response from Sam or his professor as of yet, but could this be one of the more high-profile sandbagging cases thus far in the ibjjf?
  2. submessenger is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/29/2013 8:52am

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     Style: BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox View Post
    Really, you shouldn't have belt divisions at big competitions.
    Based solely on the photos, I'd have to say not sandbagging, but outright lying.
  3. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/29/2013 9:24am

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     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

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    From the promotion post:
    I am proud and honoured to announce, that on Monday the 17th of December 2012 at 10:30pm. I Prof. Scott Schilling of Schilling Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu have graded Sam Osman to the rank of Black Belt after 8 1/2 years of dedication and consistent training, an impressive 400 Fights,16 National Titles, and 7 World Titles. Sam, after performing a very intense, technically and physically challenging grading, has demonstrated once again, without a doubt, his rightful place as a Black Belt.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    http://www.ibjjf.org/docs/rulesibjjf1stedition.pdf
    Page 35, Rule 5.8
    The athlete may only compete as the belt they are registered under with the IBJJF (or its affiliates). If the athlete is promoted by his/her teacher before the minimum time spent in the previous belt requirements met, he/she cannot compete in this current belt nor the previous one.
  4. lukerawks is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/29/2013 9:34am


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja View Post
    From the promotion post:

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    http://www.ibjjf.org/docs/rulesibjjf1stedition.pdf
    Page 35, Rule 5.8
    Yes, you have to have a minimum of one year as a brown belt to be promoted to black belt, per the IBJJF.

    The only excuse (and it's a shoddy one considering the evidence thus far) for this would be that his black belt wasn't registered with the IBJJF prior to the tournament, however, that seems to be more of the student's problem, not the federation's.

    Any other folks out there run into anything like this? The Pan Ams are the big leagues, but the art is still growing, so surely this has happened in the past as well. Anyone know what typically happens with these types of accusations?
  5. submessenger is offline
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    Transmaniacon MC

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    Posted On:
    3/29/2013 9:48am

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     Style: BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by lukerawks View Post
    Yes, you have to have a minimum of one year as a brown belt to be promoted to black belt, per the IBJJF.

    The only excuse (and it's a shoddy one considering the evidence thus far) for this would be that his black belt wasn't registered with the IBJJF prior to the tournament, however, that seems to be more of the student's problem, not the federation's.

    Any other folks out there run into anything like this? The Pan Ams are the big leagues, but the art is still growing, so surely this has happened in the past as well. Anyone know what typically happens with these types of accusations?
    Regardless of how he got to black belt, he's been black belt for 3-ish months prior to the competition. Arguably, if he's got a black belt, he's been of black belt quality for a while, despite the cloth around his waist (see also jnp). There's no good excuse, here.
  6. CrackFox is offline
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    You have to work the look.

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    Posted On:
    3/29/2013 9:49am

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     Style: Judo, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lukerawks View Post
    Any other folks out there run into anything like this? The Pan Ams are the big leagues, but the art is still growing, so surely this has happened in the past as well. Anyone know what typically happens with these types of accusations?
    From what I've seen, things get said, feelings get hurt, then everyone pretends nothing happened. Eventually there'll be an argument about something completely unrelated, and it'll get dragged back up and more feelings get hurt.
  7. honest_truth is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/30/2013 1:34am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you were a newly promoted brown belt who had to face against people who are brown and testing for black, would this be a big difference from what currently happened?

    Cut offs are always iffy, no need to get salty over technicalities.
  8. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/30/2013 7:51am

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     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

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    Quote Originally Posted by honest_truth View Post
    If you were a newly promoted brown belt who had to face against people who are brown and testing for black, would this be a big difference from what currently happened?
    Yes. In that instance, you'd both be brown belts, and able to compete, by the rules.
    Cut offs are always iffy, no need to get salty over technicalities.
    lol.
  9. slamdunc is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/30/2013 1:07pm

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     Style: TKD, CMA & American Kenpo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja View Post
    In that instance, you'd both be brown belts, and able to compete, by the rules.
    I recall the entry forms from back in the day stating 'You must fight at your belt level'. Two months experience as a black belt isn't really any more than two years at brown.
    Quote Originally Posted by honest_truth View Post
    Cut offs are always iffy, no need to get salty over technicalities.
    I haven't rolled in any sanctioned BJJ competition as yet, but I've been to three. When I was fighting point tournaments, the brown / red was usually far more competitive than black.

    I got promoted to black belt on a Thursday night, took half a day off work on Friday to go to East-West Markets Exchange to have my black belt embroidered rush-order. I picked it up Saturday morning and fought a point tournament on Sunday; the ink wasn't even dry on my papers yet. Maybe I was so anxious because I spent four years as a brown belt. At any rate, I thought I was the **** until a seasoned, experienced black belt set me on my ass and held me to third place.

  10. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/30/2013 8:07pm

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     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

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    Quote Originally Posted by slamdunc View Post
    I recall the entry forms from back in the day stating 'You must fight at your belt level'.
    Fo shizzle. It's stratified for safety, and also on principle. Fight people who are, at least on paper, at your level. If this isn't enforced with rigor, then competition does little to bolster uniformity across grading systems/thresholds.

    If you're someone's a brown, getting the best of black belts, that would be one thing.

    If someone is a black belt, sneaking in against brown belts, then they suck for trying to avoid competing at their "level" all sideways n' ****.
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