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  1. Colin is offline
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    LVL 99 Photomancer

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    Posted On:
    3/26/2013 7:26pm

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     Style: MT/BJJ/MMA

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jnp View Post
    Counterpoint, would you wear a shirt in public with a large Swastika on it? Would you endorse the Nazi's on a public forum?

    If you answered no, then why is it hard to understand why someone else from a different culture objects to a different, but equally hated symbol?
    You are misrepresenting my position. My question here is why don't we consider the cross as offensive as well?
    You are suggesting that I'm being narrow minded here, and that is completely unfair. I'm simply fucking enlightened enough to realise that since I am personally so far removed from the situation, why would I act like I'm outraged about some bullshit that doesn't affect me, or endorse others doing the same thing?

    I said I am happy for those people who wanted this. I meant it, and yet I still think censorship is stupid.

    I also thought that it was a stupid fucking gi.
  2. Rivington is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    3/26/2013 8:59pm

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     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

    9
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Some reasons why people don't find crosses offensive:

    1. religions often have two faces, especially if they're public cults: they represent charity, notions of kindness and brotherhood, etc. while also (most often when tied to a nation-state or ascendent tribe) being tied to various atrocities. Imperial Japan, not so much. It wasn't like the average Japanese had an awesome time under Imperial Japan either, after all.

    2. most of the nations where MMA is popular have nominally Christian backgrounds and many many believers

    Having said that, a lot of people clearly do find the JESUS DIDN'T TAP shirt offensive, or at least ridiculous.

    Finally, nobody censored anyone or forced anyone to do anything. You put out a product, people complain, and you do a cost-benefit analysis and either push forward or pull back. When the state shows up to shut down the textile plants, or refuses to allow gis to be shipped via post, then you can complain about either force or censorship. Not before then.
  3. hpr is offline
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    Knock-off Cthulhu

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    Posted On:
    3/27/2013 1:49am


     Style: BJJ

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Seems like my flippant comment was made on poor facts. The rising sun flag was adopted by Imperial Japanese Military in 1889, ie. it's the military flag of Japan. Since the symbol wasn't used at that the time Christians got their asses kicked out of Japan in 17th century my point is moot. I thought that version of the flag was just as old as the normal flag of Japan. Then it wouldn't represent a certain period of time per se but a longer dynasty.*

    I can very well understand the anger for the symbol as long as there is a living person who personally knew any of the victims of the atrocities committed by the Japanese army under that flag. In fact the Rising sun flag seems to be a symbol of the right wing of Japan which suggests a very strong connection to WW2 from both sides.

    It might be a bit counter productive to protest to every single use of said symbol though, since like Devil said Hayabusa was not using it for a political statement. At least one way for a symbol to lose it's power is to give it new meanings, not sort of weirdly counter-revere it like we do with swastika (and the rising sun in far east). Letting this happen doesn't demean the horrible things done under it to people.

    (As an academic subject, it would be interesting to know how long does it take for a symbol to lose it's potency for symbolising the incident it is so tightly tied to. Nobody gives a **** about roman flags these days and pirate flags are used in kids' birthday paper cups these days..)

    * For example I don't find the Swedish or the Russian flags offensive even if both countries claimed Finland for themselves and at least Russians did pretty fucking awful things here back in the day.
    Curiosity killed the cat. But damn it had a blast.
  4. Hedgehogey is offline
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    Tsun-Derrorist

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    Posted On:
    3/27/2013 2:11am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Right, and you know who should lead the reclaiming of that symbol? A white guy in Finland.


    "The only important elements in any society
    are the artistic and the criminal,
    because they alone, by questioning the society's values,
    can force it to change."-Samuel R. Delany

    RENDERING GELATINOUS WINDMILL OF DICKS

    THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEST NON-EUCLIDIAN SPLATTERJOUST EVER

    It seems that the only people who support anarchy are faggots, who want their pathetic immoral lifestyle accepted by the mainstream society. It wont be so they try to create their own.-Oldman34, friend to all children
  5. hpr is offline
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    Knock-off Cthulhu

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    Posted On:
    3/27/2013 2:40am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehogey View Post
    Right, and you know who should lead the reclaiming of that symbol? A white guy in Finland.
    No, I thought a white guy from US would suit it a lot better. I nominate you, Hedgehogey.
    Curiosity killed the cat. But damn it had a blast.
  6. Hedgehogey is offline
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    Tsun-Derrorist

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    Posted On:
    3/27/2013 4:21am

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     Style: ^_^

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Don't try to foist your shitty idea off on me. This isn't Iran-Contra, you can't pass responsibility down the line.


    "The only important elements in any society
    are the artistic and the criminal,
    because they alone, by questioning the society's values,
    can force it to change."-Samuel R. Delany

    RENDERING GELATINOUS WINDMILL OF DICKS

    THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEST NON-EUCLIDIAN SPLATTERJOUST EVER

    It seems that the only people who support anarchy are faggots, who want their pathetic immoral lifestyle accepted by the mainstream society. It wont be so they try to create their own.-Oldman34, friend to all children
  7. hpr is offline
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    Knock-off Cthulhu

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    Posted On:
    3/27/2013 5:22am


     Style: BJJ

    4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Instead of ridicule and insults iterate to me the points of why I was wrong? I'm levelheaded and willing to admit what I presented was a stupid idea regardless of topic when you provide me the arguments that convince me so. My skin colour or country of origin has nothing to do with it.
    Curiosity killed the cat. But damn it had a blast.
  8. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    :)

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    Posted On:
    3/27/2013 11:27am

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     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    I'm a big fan of the Confederate flag - a symbol of southern pride, southern independence and southern history. To many it is a symbol of hate. I don't understand why they can't step outside their own cultural shoes to understand that a symbol of southern pride is just a symbol of southern pride, regardless of who may have demonized it as a symbol of hate.
    Oh sure. Well, to many people it's a symbol of a slave-holding society, and a symbol of treason.

    Probably because of the slaves, and the treason.
  9. Devil is online now
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    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    3/27/2013 11:33am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja View Post
    Oh sure. Well, to many people it's a symbol of a slave-holding society, and a symbol of treason.

    Probably because of the slaves, and the treason.
    Yeah! 'Cause you know, nobody outside the Confederacy had slaves.

    One man's treason is another man's freedom fight.
  10. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    :)

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    Posted On:
    3/27/2013 11:40am

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     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    One man's treason is another man's freedom fight.
    Ironic choice of words FTL.
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