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  1. Cuddles is online now

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    Posted On:
    4/06/2013 2:24pm


     Style: being a fatty

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes, thank you very much.
  2. Gypsy Jazz is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/06/2013 3:36pm


     Style: Does exercise count?

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuddles View Post
    Really? I read on bodybuilding.com that your metabolism is higher for a few hours after you eat which is why the bodybuilders eat throughout the day.
    The amount your resting metabolism increases (thermic effect) is directly proportional to energy intake. Eating lots of small meals will raise metabolism small amounts more frequently. Eating fewer large meals will raise metabolism larger amounts less frequently. There have be numerous well controlled studies showing no difference in daily metabolism between eating numerous meals versus fewer. The many small meals belief is outdated speculation that has been disproved.

    Also in general it is unwise to look to professional bodybuilders for advice on training or nutrition unless they compete as a natural or they can point to something beyond anecdote to justify their claims.
  3. TheRuss is offline
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    is badder than you

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    Posted On:
    4/06/2013 3:37pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: None

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sazahko View Post
    Chili Pepper essentially pointed that out. I'm aware that fatty acid catabolism supplies a large percentage of the body's energy needs, but I was under the impression (based on previous study) that certain operations require glucose exclusively, whether brought in directly or derived via gluconeogenesis from a different compound. I may be dead wrong, but that's how I've learned it and how I've seen it presented in texts and research on the subject. Always open to new evidence, though!

    -Sazzy
    Heh, I fail at the English language. Let's try that again:

    The brain can get about two thirds of its energy needs from ketones. The other third needs to be from glucose. Unfortunately, it looks like most of my citations are offline right now:

    Ketones seamlessly replace an inadequate supply of glucose to meet the brain's energy needs, but some glucose is still needed to supply at least one third of the brain's energy needs.
    -Survival of the Fattest, p.62 (not sure what they're citing)

    The brain will use ketone bodies whenever provided with them (i.e., whenever blood ketone body levels rise). The blood-brain barrier transporter for ketone bodies is induced during starvation or very low carbohydrate intake, further promoting the flow of ketone bodies [6]. This transporter has a Km that exceeds the concentrations of circulating ketone bodies that occur during starvation or very low carbohydrate intake, and a Vmax well in excess of energy demands [6]. Therefore, ketone body delivery to brain will never be limited by this transporter. However, continued use of some glucose appears obligatory [6] and is supplied by way of hepatic gluconeogenesis.
    "Metabolic Effects of the Very-Low-Carbohydrate Diets: Misunderstood "Villains" of Human Metabolism"
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2129159/

    Citation #6 from that review is "Nutrition and the Brain (John D Fernstrom and Madelyn H Fernstrom)."; I'm trying to get a copy. The whole article may be of some interest to you.


    Anyways, some back-of-the-envelope math:
    2000kcal/day for the body * 20% for the brain = 400 kcal/day for the brain
    400kcal/day * 1/3 energy from glucose = 133kcal/day of glucose for the brain
    133kcal glucose * 1/4 grams/kcal = about 33g glucose/day for the brain.

    It's hard to get below that level from diet if you eat any sort of plant matter in quantity, and it is not an extreme load for gluconeogenesis.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
  4. Mister is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/07/2013 3:37pm


     Style: Injured

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Are 33g carbs enough to get you out of ketosis?

    Assuming they ALL go to the brain and nowhere else.

    If the total calories are low I think it could as a percentage of the total. Right?
  5. TheRuss is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/07/2013 4:11pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: None

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister View Post
    Are 33g carbs enough to get you out of ketosis?

    Assuming they ALL go to the brain and nowhere else.

    If the total calories are low I think it could as a percentage of the total. Right?
    I am honestly not completely sure what the rate limiting factor is in the accumulation of ketones; presumably it's either:
    1) how much Acetyl-CoA is produced by beta-oxidation of fatty acids, or
    2) the rate that it is converted into citrate
    Wikipedia seems to imply it's #1, in which case it would be proportional to the amount of fat your body is burning for fuel.

    I have to think that if your brain is consuming nearly all the glucose that you're:
    a) ingesting
    b) liberating from glycogen stores
    c) creating from glycerol (triglyceride catabolism), and
    d) creating from breaking down glucogenic amino acids

    ... then the rest of your body's energy is going to be coming from Acetyl-CoA one way or another.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
  6. sazahko is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2013 10:34am


     Style: Headbutts

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss View Post
    Heh, I fail at the English language. Let's try that again:

    The brain can get about two thirds of its energy needs from ketones. The other third needs to be from glucose. Unfortunately, it looks like most of my citations are offline right now:


    -Survival of the Fattest, p.62 (not sure what they're citing)


    "Metabolic Effects of the Very-Low-Carbohydrate Diets: Misunderstood "Villains" of Human Metabolism"
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2129159/

    Citation #6 from that review is "Nutrition and the Brain (John D Fernstrom and Madelyn H Fernstrom)."; I'm trying to get a copy. The whole article may be of some interest to you.


    Anyways, some back-of-the-envelope math:
    2000kcal/day for the body * 20% for the brain = 400 kcal/day for the brain
    400kcal/day * 1/3 energy from glucose = 133kcal/day of glucose for the brain
    133kcal glucose * 1/4 grams/kcal = about 33g glucose/day for the brain.

    It's hard to get below that level from diet if you eat any sort of plant matter in quantity, and it is not an extreme load for gluconeogenesis.
    Fascinating! I'll have to look into this a bit more and pass it on to some people. Thanks, man.

    At face value, the math makes sense - I guess my only question (and one I can't answer) would be how glucose actually gets distributed in your body in a ketogenic state. One would think that it might get preferentially distributed to the brain, but I also wonder how much your body tries to restore your depleted glycogen in such cases.

    Also, I'm pretty sure the rate-limiting reaction for beta-oxidation is Acetyl-CoA production...though I have absolutely nothing to back that up at this point.

    -Sazzy
  7. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2013 11:17am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    I thought the ectomorph/endomorph theory was shot down long ago. Where's TheRuss when you need him?

    At any rate, you need to be below 10% BF for those abs to show and for most people maintaining that low BF is a bitch. If you like being on a diet all the time, go for it.
    You still suck, but I have no idea. Substitute skinny guy/gal if you like. I see Russ has posted further down, maybe he can enlighten.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  8. Hashiramas is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/07/2013 4:40pm


     Style: Dutch KB / Judo

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SmH View Post
    I'll try and point out something that people usually don't talk about. Some just don't know about it, others avoid the topic because it can sound incredibly discouraging. What I'm talking about is: Genetics.

    There are people who will never be good at certain things despite training/stuying a lot. We all have these guys at class that just don't advance at fast as others or or even don't advance at all, even tho they're trying as hard as everyone else is. The same thing goes for the development of your physique. I'm not saying "You can't so don't try." I'm just saying there are people (and you may or may not be one of them) who will NEVER develop these v-cuts. No matter how hard they work, no matter how well they eat and sleep, they just won't.

    Of course working out will do you good in general, but genetics are the major factor in your development. We all know these guys who are in good shape, got decent stamina and strength, but they will always look at least kind of "fatty-ish" (same thing with people like me, who will always be rather skinny compared to the average athlete).

    I have only been in Martial Arts for about 3 years by now, but I have gone through hard physical conditioning in all kinds of ways during the last decade, and I met people of all different body-types. Most of them had to face the fact that they will never look like the fitnessmodels they wanted to be, no matter how hard they try, and then had to make the decision whether they wanted to keep pushing their limits or just give up.

    The point I'm trying to make is: Don't hunt after anything (be it looks, skills or whatever) that someone else has. Instead, get the best out of the package you got and check in with yourself from time to time to see if you're still on the right track.

    I must disagree

    Genes play a LARGE roll in body types (truth) we got Ectomorphs, endomorhps, etc and everyone is a Mix of those types. Different workouts effect each differently

    I will use my self as an example... (I am 19)

    I had no care in the world for dieting and was pretty chubby. I noticed what path my body was taking and was like EW! so... I started a super strict way of eating, more water, vegetables, fruits, nuts, lean meat, juicing 2x a day... running, weight training

    My body was changing week after week. I started burning baby fat and my body started getting a more "chiseled" look after 3 months. Energy is boosted, More ladies look at you. It was truly a facinating turn-around! Anyone can get a six-pack (unless you have some anti-six pack disease).


    Here's what I did, (going chubby to lean):

    Now there is no secret, only a lot of misconceptions... it is true! a six pack is made in the kitchen!

    step 1: diet, diet , diet, water.

    step 2: consistency and a will to never give up, people get discouraged because they don't see results in a week and stop, when they were doing the right thing.

    step 3: find a friend to train with and it will boost your moral.

    -Every morning wake up, drink a glass of water w/banana. jog and add in sprint intervals a totalt distance of 3-5 miles.

    after I ran I would get this stuff called "ultimate meal" a powder that had essential vitamins, minerals, and herbs. No gmo, Vegan, great product!

    Then the rest of the day is up to you...

    Keep in mind of the "after burn effect" your body burns calories while rebuilding it self after a workout... to more after burn effect the BETTER. High intensity weight training (like crossfit) mixed with high intensity cardio.

    I am 19 so maybe thats why I can burn fat so easily, but it's not hard.

    I do have a six pack now, and a "V- shape"

    Also keep in mind... a fighter and a fitness model eat differently and train differently, If you wan't to be a muscle magazine model then expect a different diet and workout.
  9. calmPsycho is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/21/2013 10:55am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'll just chip in on the genetics side. I'm a skinny bastard who has a reasonable 6 pack even if I sit around and eat chocolate all day long. That said, I've always been active and I do do situps.

    The male 6 pack is probably the equivalent of having a models figure for a woman. Some people have it naturally. Some people can work on it. For most of the world its something the media shove down our throats so they can make people feel shitty and sell us expensive diets and fitness fads.

    But situps are good!
    And lay off the sugary foods fatty.
  10. CrackFox is offline
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    You have to work the look.

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    Posted On:
    5/21/2013 12:56pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by calmPsycho View Post
    But situps are good!
    Not really. There pretty far down the list of things you should be doing.
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