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  1. W. Rabbit is offline
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    heaven sent and hell bent but weapons clenched and well kept

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    Posted On:
    3/20/2013 3:33pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I also couldn't help but notice when I checked out the circuit diagram for a simple defibrillator, I saw something familiar...the only real difference between this circuit and the goofy one I made above is the capacitor.

    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 3/20/2013 3:37pm at .
  2. doc8404 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/20/2013 4:21pm


     Style: Pekiti Tirsia Kali

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree that high amps are fatal. Dartmouth's engineering department has a good chart at:

    http://engineering.dartmouth.edu/saf...alCurrent.html

    Commercial stun guns produce 1-4 mA and TASERs are 2.1 mA.
    Fatal Amps are around 100 mA.

    I think that we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this issue, W. Rabbit. I do not believe the sword in the video is capable of causing cardiac death. It can hurt like an SOB (and I'm sure a cut from the dual blade would hurt as well), but I don't believe a fatal shock will be delivered.
  3. W. Rabbit is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/20/2013 4:32pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by doc8404 View Post
    I agree that high amps are fatal. Dartmouth's engineering department has a good chart at:

    http://engineering.dartmouth.edu/saf...alCurrent.html

    Fatal Amps are around 100 mA.
    Cool link, thx!

    What that Dartmouth site is saying is generally 100mA current is enough to be lethal and kill a person whether it goes directly through the heart or not. It essentially says is that if your body in general is receiving 100mA, your heart is receiving enough current through it (a few mA) to fibrillate.

    But the TASER is DC, so add a few zeros to these numbers. I'm starting to think you're right, but I'd need to know more details to convince myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by doc8404 View Post
    Commercial stun guns produce 1-4 mA and TASERs are 2.1 mA.
    Didn't the first link you post claim the ranges were in the single- several dozen amp range (DC) for commercial stun guns? That is confusing me.

    This really interests me...do you have a definitive source on the current delivery of commercial TASERS? I'd like to read it and understand better. I don't really know the differences between the columns (models) in this chart but if I'm reading it right they start at 150mA (DC), which is not the same as the 100mA (AC) the Dartmouth paper is talking about.

    Theoretically all we need to do is figure out the circuit, add a 15k resistor as the human, and figure out exactly how much current he's giving himself. If we could measure the time, we could even get the joules.

    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 3/20/2013 4:39pm at .
  4. doc8404 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/20/2013 7:00pm


     Style: Pekiti Tirsia Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Part of the problem is that, TASERs and stun guns are not true DC. They operate on a pulse system, with a TASER delivering about 19 pulses in a second. So, you do not receive the charge in the same fashion as you would from a pure DC charge.

    As far as definitive sources, this is the TASER research page link:
    http://www.taser.com/research-and-sa...search-library

    There's a lot of info here.

    As far as the earlier PhD candidate's thesis; you're right. His chart does list the M26 at 15A and the X26 at 3.5A. I don't know where he got the 15A from, I can only find a max of 3.6mA for the M26, and that's for a discontinued model.

    The chart does, however, list the time. TASER delivers a 5 second discharge, unless the trigger is held down longer, or the device is turned of early.
  5. doc8404 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/20/2013 7:18pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So, I was curious. Using a resistance of 300 ohms from here:
    http://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=6793

    I found this:
    0.0021 milliamps (squared is 0.00000441 milliamps)
    The square above times the resistance is 0.001323
    Since the TASER cycles at 19 cycles a second, the time is 0.052631579

    Power times time is: 0.069631579
    So the Joules is 0.069 Joules.

    Assuming my math is right, I google-fu'd this.
  6. W. Rabbit is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/20/2013 10:26pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The total resistance is much higher. 300 ohms is just the internal resistance, you have to factor in the skin resistance twice. From that source:

    Rtotal = Rskin(in) + Rinternal + Rskin(out)

    Rskin can range from 1kOhm for wet skin to 100 kOhm for very dry skin.

    So the real resistance from hands to chest to feet to ground is at least 2.3kOhm and could be as high as 0.2 megaohms.

    Where did you get 0.0021 milliamps? That seems really, really low.
  7. doc8404 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2013 11:56am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My apologies, I miss typed. The Taser is 2.1mA, so it's 0.0021 amps, not milliamps.

    Using your resistance of 2.3kOhm, and 0.0021 amps, I get
    0.000496316 joules, or 4.96316 10-7 kilojoules.

    I'm pretty sure I screwed something up in the math. But, I give. All I'm doing is plugging numbers into online formulas, not really understanding the formula its self.

    I do have to say, compared to a lot on the "discussions" I witness on this site, with no outside discussions on Hitler and the like, I've been finding this pretty interesting.
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