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  1. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/30/2013 4:26pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by catfishaggie View Post
    If you can not see the benefits of warm ups then maybe you are in the wrong martial art.
    Thats not what he said

    Quote Originally Posted by Rokujukyu View Post
    I agree with getting your upa/shrimping perfect as it is really helpful as well as getting your body warmed up. Practicing some drills & doing stretches for injury prevention is all that is needed to be ready for a lesson.
    See this is what he said

    Quote Originally Posted by Rokujukyu View Post
    Running around & doing a cardio workout before being taught technique is utter rubbish.
    This not the same as not seeing the benefits of warm ups.
    Cardio Workout =/= to warming up
  2. catfishaggie is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/30/2013 4:38pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A light jog in a circle is warming up. To me it equates the same thing we did before football games. It's purpose is to get the blood flowing. So yeah I stand by what I said.
  3. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/30/2013 5:05pm

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     Style: 血鷲

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    Quote Originally Posted by catfishaggie View Post
    Its purpose is to get the blood flowing.
    Precisely.

    Why choke off a bitch's blood-flow if it isn't going in the first place?

    Duh.
  4. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/30/2013 5:51pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rokujukyu View Post
    Running around & doing a cardio workout before being taught technique is utter rubbish.
    If someone wants to get shape go to the gym & lift weights or do pilaties I don't care what it is, just do it in your own time. I've been through hundreds of lessons now & I can't stand the running in circles stuff.

    I agree with getting your upa/shrimping perfect as it is really helpful as well as getting your body warmed up. Practicing some drills & doing stretches for injury prevention is all that is needed to be ready for a lesson.

    The amount of different techniques to learn when starting off is hard enough to remember already and getting in a decent time practicing/drilling those same moves can really make the difference between wanting to stay one gym or another.

    Most lesson don't include many new techniques & trying to remember five or more moves in one lesson could be very difficult for many students. So why limit the amount of time given to practicing/drilling the two or three moves? I'm pretty sure that the more times you do this type of thing the you better you get.
    Let me guess, you're a blue belt.
  5. NeilG is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/30/2013 7:36pm


     Style: Kendo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have to say I'm not down with using a lot of class time on straight cardio/strength training. However in a recreational club you sure get a lot of guys who you know aren't doing it on their own.

    OP, if you can learn 5-7 techniques in a class, my hat is off to you. If you're going twice a week for a year, that would be like over 600 techniques under your belt in a year. What a machine you must be! I can only seem to get a handful of things working consistently for me, I must be some sort of budo learning disability case compared to you.
  6. Mr.Miyagi is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/30/2013 9:22pm


     Style: BJJ/Zumba

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Supreme View Post
    No, I looked, it said you were a blue belt. I was right. Get back to me in a few years and see if you still think this way. I get so many post next to my name because I've been here for over 10 years dumbass. Jettatore is a fucking moron anyway.

    You want to make this a war sugar? You gave an answer that is typical of a blue belt. When you get to brown and black you'll know what I'm talking about.

    You lose with that post on so many levels it's ridiculous.
    I didn't read that as DON'T DO ANY WARM UPS, but to do SPECIFIC warmups that are at least more engaging than just running in a circle. Even if it's fun scrambling around like a child with the sitout and crab walk up and down the mat, but why RUNNING of all things?

    Omega, are you looking at this as an instructor and applying that context to a beginner class completely instead of looking at it as in individual wanting to spend more time drilling techniques and doing more martial art specific type warm ups that lead into said technique?

    As a blue belt, I also don't see the benefit in running around for 15-25 minutes when I have only a 60 minute class to train in, our classes are split between beginner and advanced. I'd understand shrimping/escapes down the mat, or doing something more specific like mount escape drills, arm bar drills, passing drills, flow rolling etc, sit outs down the mat, pummelling--5 minutes max of doing non-specific technique style warm ups for anyone longer than 3 months in our classes.

    I don't think I'll see my view on that change; maybe, if I had a class of 60 people and only had mat space for 40 people would it be more efficient to have people run around in a circle versus using space to have them warm up in something specific? Is this a view to cater to the lowest denominator for warm ups?

    Because, otherwise, I'm completely lost as to the point you're trying to make, Omega. I know you guys have a heap of experience but saying stuff that implies "You'll get it in another 8 years" doesn't help us understand your point of view now, and I don't think it would be entirely difficult for us to grasp if you just laid it out. There could be something very important we're missing then, and would be awesome if you could point that out and help accelerate our training?

    RESEARCH!
    Ok, I knew we'd covered this before, the Jascul's thread in 2011 about not skipping warmup, and I feel the thread is going over multiple things from personal standpoints with time restraints for classes and requirements not really outlined so we can all be on the same page when talking about stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Supreme/Spaceship Bruce
    Our entire warm up is designed around beginners learning to move on the ground. It's also based in proper conditioning which is different than kickboxing and boxing. For intermediate and advanced practitioners we warm up with ground with flow grappling. You can't do that with spazzy beginners, technically our warm up is 30 minutes; 15 of which is repetitive technical movement, then 30 minutes technical, then randori and rolling.
    - Emphasis mine, so then, how does running around designed to help beginners learn to move on the ground? Can't we replace that with something else fun and ground centric for warm up for beginners onwards etc?
  7. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/30/2013 9:45pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Miyagi View Post
    I didn't read that as DON'T DO ANY WARM UPS, but to do SPECIFIC warmups that are at least more engaging than just running in a circle. Even if it's fun scrambling around like a child with the sitout and crab walk up and down the mat, but why RUNNING of all things?
    I didn't take it that way either. It just seems like something I expect to hear out of blue belts. How do I know? Guess what my "Blue" belts keep asking me?

    Omega, are you looking at this as an instructor and applying that context to a beginner class completely instead of looking at it as in individual wanting to spend more time drilling techniques and doing more martial art specific type warm ups that lead into said technique?
    Grappling requires a myriad of different muscle groups, if the exercises are covering these muscle groups then you're gaining something from it.

    As a blue belt, I also don't see the benefit in running around for 15-25 minutes when I have only a 60 minute class to train in, our classes are split between beginner and advanced. I'd understand shrimping/escapes down the mat, or doing something more specific like mount escape drills, arm bar drills, passing drills, flow rolling etc, sit outs down the mat, pummelling--5 minutes max of doing non-specific technique style warm ups for anyone longer than 3 months in our classes.
    I think you're contradicting yourself here. You don't see the benefit of "running" around doing 15 minutes of drills unless they have something to do what you're supposed to learn? You lost me. Let me see, 5 minutes to get your cardio up to a proper level, shrimping, dive bombers, side rocks, falls, sit outs.....I'm up to 15 minutes depending upon the size of the class. What am I missing here?

    I don't think I'll see my view on that change; maybe, if I had a class of 60 people and only had mat space for 40 people would it be more efficient to have people run around in a circle versus using space to have them warm up in something specific? Is this a view to cater to the lowest denominator for warm ups?

    Because, otherwise, I'm completely lost as to the point you're trying to make, Omega. I know you guys have a heap of experience but saying stuff that implies "You'll get it in another 8 years" doesn't help us understand your point of view now, and I don't think it would be entirely difficult for us to grasp if you just laid it out. There could be something very important we're missing then, and would be awesome if you could point that out and help accelerate our training?
    This is going to sound wrong but how old are you? Sincerely. So I can use the proper metaphor/analogy.

    RESEARCH!
    Ok, I knew we'd covered this before, the Jascul's thread in 2011 about not skipping warmup, and I feel the thread is going over multiple things from personal standpoints with time restraints for classes and requirements not really outlined so we can all be on the same page when talking about stuff.
    Not touching this one.



    - Emphasis mine, so then, how does running around designed to help beginners learn to move on the ground? Can't we replace that with something else fun and ground centric for warm up for beginners onwards etc?
    That's something you've got to talk to your instructor with. Give me your answers to the above and then I'll go into more detail.
  8. catfishaggie is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/30/2013 10:00pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Miyagi,

    I'm trying to understand the problem people have with this. In my mind running in a circle at the start of the class is the same as baseball players jogging the whole warning track during batting practice and all the other warmups are really the start of the technique portion. I'm just a lowly white belt with **** all experience, I really want to know the thinking and why Omega popped off "you must be a blue" in his response to Rok.
  9. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/30/2013 10:11pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by catfishaggie View Post
    why Omega popped off "you must be a blue" in his response to Rok.
    I've had my rants about blue belts a few times on this forum. It's a weird place in BJJ. Consider it the teenage years. Many blue belts will dogmatically follow their respective instructors leads while others will jump up and down thinking they know a better way of doing it. I'm just as guilty of this mentality. Then when you've gone through the process and start leading and start having to regurgitate the moves you believe you knew you discover something completely new.

    If I look at my class and I see a bunch of intermediate and advanced players and they asked to do some free rolling to warm up I give the go ahead because I know they get it. Lower belts not so much. Interestingly while I don't classify blue belts as lower belts there is still a lot for them to learn. I could go into a gigantic explanation of wisdom and experience over youth and enthusiasim, but it would be pointless. Most of the time I just tell my students that it's a bridge they must cross, and when they get to the other side they'll understand. That's all I'm saying here.

    Unfortunately Roku took the comment the wrong way. Probably because I neg repped him in the process.
  10. catfishaggie is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/30/2013 10:16pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Supreme View Post
    I've had my rants about blue belts a few times on this forum. It's a weird place in BJJ. Consider it the teenage years. Many blue belts will dogmatically follow their respective instructors leads while others will jump up and down thinking they know a better way of doing it. I'm just as guilty of this mentality. Then when you've gone through the process and start leading and start having to regurgitate the moves you believe you knew you discover something completely new.

    If I look at my class and I see a bunch of intermediate and advanced players and they asked to do some free rolling to warm up I give the go ahead because I know they get it. Lower belts not so much. Interestingly while I don't classify blue belts as lower belts there is still a lot for them to learn. I could go into a gigantic explanation of wisdom and experience over youth and enthusiasim, but it would be pointless. Most of the time I just tell my students that it's a bridge they must cross, and when they get to the other side they'll understand. That's all I'm saying here.

    Unfortunately Roku took the comment the wrong way. Probably because I neg repped him in the process.
    I got ya now, it's one of those "wise man knows he knows nothing at all" type of things. I guess with playing baseball and football from real young age all the way through high school I never sat down and thought about something like running in a circle, I just assumed it was for the same reason we did it before games. I really hope if I ever get to blue I don't start pulling that crap, I guess knowing about it now I can prepare for it now mentally.
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