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  1. #21
    Diesel_tke's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Machette View Post
    If you can't do the dance while exausted you'll be at a major dissadvantage when you run out of gas in a fight. Technique tends to go rioght out the window when gased if you don't train for it. That's been my experience anyways.
    The first BJJ tournament I entered I apparently overcompensated with my grips, or just freaked out. So when that first match was over I couldn't hardly pick up anything with my hands. So every match after that I had to do everything without using grips. Basically my hands would just give out with the lightest grip. Luckily I had trained while I was tired before and was able to compensate for it. Really taught me a few lessons though. One about relaxing while I compete. One about forearm strength. And also to train for worst case scenerio.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.

  2. #22
    Tranquil Suit's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Jetta, it's tradition that the challenger travels (and pays for the travel) and since you don't have a dime in your pocket I suggest you stfu.

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  3. #23
    itwasntme's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Machette View Post
    Jettatore doesn't take the cream pie. Dude told me it was too "pedestrian" whatever that means.
    Bahahahaha

    Ahh, good times.

    Instead, he makes them brick in his mouth...
    Well that just sounds like a terrible idea. Patooie patooie!

  4. #24
    Mr. Machette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jettatore View Post
    Well Alex, I guess that's the difference between you and me. I know many people find me annoying, **** i find a lot of people annoying. But I don't go flat out rude on them without any sort of comedy/humor just because I'm on the internet.
    Don't mind Alex. He's just been hella cranky since that house fell on his sister...

  5. #25

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Are you out of your mind Tranquil. He lives in New Zealand. Who the hell wants to go there? What and see the hill where they filmed lord of the rings, **** that. Also he's starts with his crappy haircut and douchey manner of addressing strangers that he doesn't agree with or care for. this ****. so he's really the challenger. there's a way to respond and criticize without coming off full douche and Alex doesn't have that nuance yet.

    Anyways, since your the boss. I will (not working around spikes schedule cuz he's flying coach) find a cheap ticket for some months from now and pay for it, he can foot his own hotel bill and he's coming here. No one wants to do this in New Zealand...... Only problem with that is he could troll me, make me pay for the flight and then not get on the plain.... And I don't trust his willingness here. I'll tell you what, let's make it NZ. I'm down, set it up. I'll figure out money some how. why the hell nz though, couldn't you live in Brazil or China or something, even Chicago would be better....

  6. #26

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I know exactly what you're saying. There's a couple thought's here. Just as JNP noted. Some feel that it's better to learn technique when you're exhausted, to take out the strength issue. What's more, is, they feel it develops good cardio, and physical strength.

    Look at it this way. You know what you can do when you're rested. How much do you know you can do when you're exhausted and pushed to your limits and beyond? Those who can fight when they're drained and exhausted have a leg up on their opponent.

    That said, There's also those that believe, working harder leads to better fighters. I don't understand that. Seems to me that it's better to train until it exhausts you, rather than, doing exercises until you're exhausted.

    My Sensei believes somewhat the same. It's better to get exhausted training/sparring, then push yourself after doing exercises. I was going to start going to a BJJ school that seemed to want to kill me with exercise before class. Now, the ONLY reason I didn't go there is because they did things backwards from what I believe constitutes productive training. We "warmed" up for 30-45 minutes doing everything you can think of. Then we rolled, then we did drills, then worked technique, and done. (Edited to add: After discussing this with my Sensei, he told me," You don't need that!." Sensei is a 3 time Olympian, and won the Jim Thorpe Martial Artist of the Year Award, and is on the USJA coaches board. How can I argue with that?)

    I believe if done right, you warm up, you drill, you learn technique, then you roll. AFTER you run, jump through hoops and all that other ninja stuff.

    At the Judo club I'm at, we do a light warm up that includes some drills (we call pulls, and pulls to throws) After, we may or may not learn or drill a technique, then we Randori (spar). After is second class where all the hard work is. That's where we push ourselves, sprints, throws, uchikomi (fit ins/drills) and lot's of running and sprinting for an hour or so.

    One time we were having extremely hard weeks, Sensei seemed like he wanted to kill us. In the middle of summer with no AC, we worked our asses off like no other. We had a German guy visiting. I mentioned to the guy, "I think Sensei hates us, that's why we're being tortured." That guy replied quite profoundly, "NO! We have to do this because Sensei LOVES us!".

    Now, I think, each school has a different thought. Serious schools will seriously work your ass the hell of with little mercy. They're dedicated to making you the BEST FIGHTER YOU CAN BE, and that's no bullshit.

    You're interested in BJJ, then do it. Do what you can, your Coach understands what you're going through and won't expect much of you until you progress in rank/skill. Then more will be required.

    Don't stress yourself. Do what you can and gradually push yourself. It's worth it. As JNP said, eventually, you'll grow accustomed to the hard ass warm ups. That doesn't mean they won't be challenging.

    One last thing, QUIT FUCKING SMOKING! That **** is just robbing you of your entire life and you're enjoyment of your hobbies and your fighting interest. Atleast get some E-Ckigarettes, those things are great. Leave the ego and tough guy attitude at the with your councelor. Doing this hard ass ****, and dealing with the disappointment, exhaustion, wonder, confusion and frustrations is a great opportunity for you to learn to deal with some of the problems that might be causing your, "certified mental" delema. BTW, every human is crazy as a ************, it all depends on which area, so stop making a big deal of it.
    Last edited by Sorekara; 3/19/2013 4:22pm at .

  7. #27
    Tranquil Suit's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettatore View Post
    so he's really the challenger.
    nope.

    there's a way to respond and criticize without coming off full douche and Alex doesn't have that nuance yet.
    there's also a way to respond in return without resorting to physical threats.

    Anyways, since your the boss.
    No such thing.

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  8. #28

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Edit: Never mind this reply: Sorekara above said it way better.... Thanks man!

    I really just want to seperate the core/basic learning the mental side of it where I have to write what basic positions I'm in, inside my brain, away from recovering from exhaustion.

    I don't learn right after being exhausted, several hours later at home I'm full of energy though..., I can preform right after being exhausted and do what I already know, if not a bit worse, but I really don't find it conducive to learning new stuff. Again, it's a theory, I'd like to test it at some point
    Last edited by Jettatore; 3/19/2013 4:29pm at .

  9. #29
    Permalost's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettatore View Post
    Are you out of your mind Tranquil. He lives in New Zealand. Who the hell wants to go there?
    Fucking EVERYONE, dude!

  10. #30
    jnp's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettatore View Post
    I can't know, because I don't know JuJitsu, that's why I'm posting. But for all the good and reasonable things said in the thread, I suspect there is a much faster way to start teach BJJ and that would be along the lines of, drill basics for a month or so/or some more accurate bar/test/measure, possibly crush the beginners with heavy workouts AT THE END of each class, not right before you go over 1 or two moves and into sparring.

    Don't even bother too much with sparring first month or so while your teaching basics. and when they have a pile of core techniques that they understand conceptually and can demonstrate on a dummy but not on a real resisting person, introduce them to an increasingly aggressive level sparring, making sure that their opponents know how to do things like arm-bars without hurting them, and vice versa, that they know hot to spar and minimize injury to the other player.
    These are valid ideas. The problem is most instructors find they have student retention problems when they make new students wait for more than a few weeks to spar.

    Combat sports such as Muay Thai, Judo and BJJ tend to have very high attrition rates due to the fact that most people don't want to put the hard work in that one needs to become proficient, much less good in them.

    When you start adding training methods that lose you more students on top of that, it can kill a new gym. Some of the aspects of class structure you don't like are there for your benefit, and some are there for the benefit of the gym.

    Personally, I believe a 20-30 min warm up that is physically demanding is a good idea because loose muscles get injured less often. I do not believe in high intensity warm ups for the average class though. Once you go over 30 min of conditioning, you're taking too much time away from the technique of the day, drilling and sparring portion of the class in my opinion. You can always do cardio or strength training outside of class.

    Competition classes/training should have high intensity sections however, but that still doesn't mean they have to occur first.
    Shut the hell up and train.

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