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  1. Sang is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/13/2013 9:01pm


     Style: MMA, Yoga

    0
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Dealing with heavy top guard pressure in no gi?

    On the weekend i did a bluebelt tournament and ran into a style of competitor I hadn't experience before. The pressure fighter who gives up no points and goes for very little offensively except positional improvements.

    This guy wins whole tournaments without a single submission and while i beat him in Gi with 1 advantage no points scored, in the No Gi he kicked my arse.

    This showed a pretty big weakness in my game, i rely on submitting people from the guard or sweeping and working from side control. How do i deal with someone who sits tight in my closed guard with hands on my biceps and no intention to go for any passes or give up space?

    Are there some techniques i can work on to counter this? In the Gi i go for collar chokes when they do this but there is not enough room for guillotines.

    Any advice you can offer would be appreciated, maybe Battlefields can put up the video of it too.
    "Boxing is the art of hitting an opponent from the furthest distance away, exposing the least amount of your body while getting into position to punch with maximum leverage and not getting hit."
    Kenny Weldon
  2. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    3/14/2013 1:17am

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     Style: TKD, BJJ

    6
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sang View Post
    On the weekend i did a bluebelt tournament and ran into a style of competitor I hadn't experience before. The pressure fighter who gives up no points and goes for very little offensively except positional improvements.

    This guy wins whole tournaments without a single submission and while i beat him in Gi with 1 advantage no points scored, in the No Gi he kicked my arse.

    This showed a pretty big weakness in my game, i rely on submitting people from the guard or sweeping and working from side control. How do i deal with someone who sits tight in my closed guard with hands on my biceps and no intention to go for any passes or give up space?

    Are there some techniques i can work on to counter this? In the Gi i go for collar chokes when they do this but there is not enough room for guillotines.

    Any advice you can offer would be appreciated, maybe Battlefields can put up the video of it too.
    The BEST option here is to get the takedown for the initial two points, which forces him to take the initiative and gives you a big opening advantage. Guys that play that game HATE to be down on points and it will make them sloppier and give you more opportunities for the submission.

    If you pulled guard anyways because you hate yourself and like to suffer then dig deep on one of his arms and constantly work arm drag attempts. If you can't get the armdrag he will be defending by pulling his arm on that side in tighter towards his body at which point you can fake an arm drag and then push his hand down for the triangle choke.

    Alternately you can start off my constantly trying to push his hand down for the triangle setup, and then as he pushes back you can yank that arm out and extend it and go for an omoplatta on that side.

    Mostly you need to setup at least a 2 technique combo and force it on him so that his preoccupation with maintaining his 'safe' position leads him into the second move of the combo.
  3. jnp is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/14/2013 3:49pm

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     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Missing posts moved here: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=120145

    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon View Post
    The BEST option here is to get the takedown for the initial two points, which forces him to take the initiative and gives you a big opening advantage. Guys that play that game HATE to be down on points and it will make them sloppier and give you more opportunities for the submission.

    If you pulled guard anyways because you hate yourself and like to suffer then dig deep on one of his arms and constantly work arm drag attempts. If you can't get the armdrag he will be defending by pulling his arm on that side in tighter towards his body at which point you can fake an arm drag and then push his hand down for the triangle choke.

    Alternately you can start off my constantly trying to push his hand down for the triangle setup, and then as he pushes back you can yank that arm out and extend it and go for an omoplatta on that side.

    Mostly you need to setup at least a 2 technique combo and force it on him so that his preoccupation with maintaining his 'safe' position leads him into the second move of the combo.
    Excellent advice concerning the arm drags and chaining attacks together to disrupt top guy's posture.

    Guys that are strong and favor heavy top pressure while in someone's guard are hard to beat using closed guard. Personally, I tend to open my guard in those situations in order to better destroy their posture.

    If you want to remain in closed guard, take Kint's advice about swimming under his arms to get an under hook or to arm drag them. If they're good, you will probably need to chain opposing arm drags together to actually get the drag.

    Once his arm is dragged, immediately pin his upper arm to his body with your torso. Allow no space between you and his arm. You can then start to work off to the side the arm is pinned on to set up a sweep.

    Heavy top pressure calls for a dynamic bottom game made possible by an open guard, or heavy pressure from the bottom as soon as you gain any advantage.
  4. Sang is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/14/2013 4:11pm


     Style: MMA, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thank you, I appreciate both your tips. If you had asked me a week ago if I had a dynamic guard i would have said yes.

    The only chain i was really trying to get was the armdrag to hip bump by hitting the bump when he pulled his arm back. When he didn't fall for this i was dead it the water. Single attacks got me nowhere.

    For the next 5 weeks before the state competition i am going to focus on not pulling guard, armdrag to triangle, fake triangle to omoplata and armdrag to opposite armdrag combination.

    Can anyone recommend a good video tutorial on armdrags from guard? I can't remember the last time i successfully did this technique and it seems an integral part of no gi chaining.
    "Boxing is the art of hitting an opponent from the furthest distance away, exposing the least amount of your body while getting into position to punch with maximum leverage and not getting hit."
    Kenny Weldon
  5. DKJr is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/14/2013 7:21pm

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     Style: Combat Cuddling

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Remember that his forward pressure can also be used to butterfly sweep him. Another very simple option to to stand in base to come up over him.

  6. Sang is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/16/2013 3:46pm


     Style: MMA, Yoga

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DKJr View Post
    Remember that his forward pressure can also be used to butterfly sweep him. Another very simple option to to stand in base to come up over him.

    This technical standup is gold, I've been getting sweeps on people in class who I
    can't touch with anything else. They really don't expect it. I've been chaining it off a failed hip bump.

    Drilled the other moves with Miyagi as well, it all feels pretty natural except the push triangle to omoplata which I stuff up for some reason.

    I've also started using a 2 on one grip to create space for my foot on ther hip to transition to butterfly.

    Thanks for all the help!
    "Boxing is the art of hitting an opponent from the furthest distance away, exposing the least amount of your body while getting into position to punch with maximum leverage and not getting hit."
    Kenny Weldon
  7. DKJr is offline
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    Fasten your seat belts, and prepare for lift off

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    Posted On:
    3/16/2013 5:28pm

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     Style: Combat Cuddling

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sang View Post
    This technical standup is gold, I've been getting sweeps on people in class who I
    can't touch with anything else. They really don't expect it.
    Most gyms don't emphasize this as an option enough, it's highly effective in MMA. Nogi, and gi. I've been focusing on using that basic move to get up and put guys in the front head lock position or as a setup for guillotines and omoplata/triangles.
  8. Kintanon is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/16/2013 5:37pm

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     Style: TKD, BJJ

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sang View Post
    This technical standup is gold, I've been getting sweeps on people in class who I
    can't touch with anything else. They really don't expect it. I've been chaining it off a failed hip bump.

    Drilled the other moves with Miyagi as well, it all feels pretty natural except the push triangle to omoplata which I stuff up for some reason.

    I've also started using a 2 on one grip to create space for my foot on ther hip to transition to butterfly.

    Thanks for all the help!
    If the omo feels awkward off of that setup then you can always use something else. One guy I train with rotates it right into a flower sweep. Just yanks the arm up on one side and dives down to grab the pants at the knee on the other and over they go. That might flow better for you.

    Or just more armdrags. You can never have too many armdrags.
  9. Sang is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/16/2013 6:57pm


     Style: MMA, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DKJr View Post
    Most gyms don't emphasize this as an option enough, it's highly effective in MMA. Nogi, and gi. I've been focusing on using that basic move to get up and put guys in the front head lock position or as a setup for guillotines and omoplata/triangles.
    I really wasn't expecting it to work as well as it did. You are right, it put me into an awesome position where they either panic over the lost point and drive up giving me their neck or flop down and give the sweep. I have a decent front headlock game so this is perfect. Are there any other standup moves you use from closed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon View Post
    If the omo feels awkward off of that setup then you can always use something else. One guy I train with rotates it right into a flower sweep. Just yanks the arm up on one side and dives down to grab the pants at the knee on the other and over they go. That might flow better for you.

    Or just more armdrags. You can never have too many armdrags.
    I think the problem i had was Miyagi was reacting in a different way to expected, I'd push the hand closer to the neck for the tap through triangle but instead of pushing back he'd lock down his elbow over the thigh effectively stopping me setting up the triangle without giving me the movement.

    Definitely going armdrag crazy over the next month, I'm starting to see how using them and the movement opportunities they create will make my game less one dimensional.

    Learning how not to pull guard may be a longer project. We do 1 day a month of takedown training at this school and its always Gi specific moves.
    "Boxing is the art of hitting an opponent from the furthest distance away, exposing the least amount of your body while getting into position to punch with maximum leverage and not getting hit."
    Kenny Weldon
  10. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/16/2013 9:15pm

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As far as books go about arm drags its hard to beat


    Also any chance you can work on your stand up during open mat times?
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