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  1. itwasntme is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/03/2013 1:51pm


     Style: being less stupid

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Re: A Ninja Ex-Marine Captain Speaks: What It Means to Be a Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by Azatdawn View Post
    Well you named the Autobahn, which you were wrong about.
    And then backed off it...

    You named the cars... however, the cars he built were mostly "Kübelwagen" for the Wehrmacht.
    And the Volkswagen, which translates to Peoples' Car.

    You said he had the well-fare of the German people in mind... absolutely laughable statement in its own right and seeing how you didn't mention anything in specific completely without substance.
    A completely subjective point in and of itself. But I did give my reasoning.

    You said he served at the front to serve his country... wrong again. He served at the front, yes. But not for his country and only for a very short time. Truth is, he got away from the front very very soon. He was a coward that made up lies about his time in World War I. It's been argued that this is why he remained a private and didn't climb ranks in the military.
    No, I said he was on the front lines, comma, serving his country.

    Also, I'm pretty sure he was told he likely wouldn't become an officer. I think he was actually promoted past private.

    I didn't say get educated but don't use google. I was curious about what you actually knew already, which seems very little.
    So, in other words, you weren't interested in having this conversation to begin with, yet chose to anyway? Redundant.


    I'd like to add how fucking obvious it is that the only reason this has been getting any response is due to the fact that it's fucking Hitler. Yes, let's pick apart one of three points I brought up. You're not being objective, and you're trying to move the goalposts. Provide something to contrary my points, and I'll shut right the **** up.
    Start a training log!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
    i really think that those who can't get their head around the bowing thing (because their angry sky daddy will punish them) don't deserve judo. life is full of choices, and if your bronze age superstitions are holding you back, so be it.
  2. Azatdawn is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/03/2013 1:57pm


     Style: Thaiboxing; MMA nööb

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    1) The "Volkswagen" was largely unavailable for the people.

    2) He didn't serve HIS country.

    3) You stated your reasoning? You didn't name a single fact of anything he did where we can savely assume it was for the well-being of the German people, not just furthering his own ideals.
  3. itwasntme is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/03/2013 2:17pm


     Style: being less stupid

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Re: A Ninja Ex-Marine Captain Speaks: What It Means to Be a Warrior

    Quote Originally Posted by Azatdawn View Post
    1) The "Volkswagen" was largely unavailable for the people.
    Can I have a link?

    2) He didn't serve HIS country.
    He obviously didn't claim the country of his birth, so I'd argue he did serve his country, or at least the one he felt a connection with.

    3) You stated your reasoning? You didn't name a single fact of anything he did where we can savely assume it was for the well-being of the German people, not just furthering his own ideals.
    Again, you're missing what I was even trying to reason. That some good came from him, regardless of his true motives or what have you.

    Keep in mind I'm following your request and not googling anything. I could possibly come up with better cases. Either way, that was still only one of my initial points, even if we rule this one out.
    Start a training log!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
    i really think that those who can't get their head around the bowing thing (because their angry sky daddy will punish them) don't deserve judo. life is full of choices, and if your bronze age superstitions are holding you back, so be it.
  4. Moenstah is online now

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    Posted On:
    3/03/2013 2:43pm


     Style: 空手 / &#2147

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    It's called 'searching' here for example, if you don't know German, tough luck.

    Richtig betrogen wurde die Arbeiterklasse durch die Volkswagenaktion, die auch ein Teil von KdF war. 1938 begann sie mit großem propagandistischen Aufwand. Der "Sozialismus der Tat" versprach dem Arbeiter ein eigenes Auto. Durch langfristiges Sparen sollte man zum billigen Volkswagen kommen. 336.668 Sparer zahlten bis Kriegsausbruch 236 Millionen RM ein. [117] Kein einziger Wagen wurde ausgeliefert. Selbst als klar war, daß an Stelle von Autos in Wolfsburg Kriegsfahrzeuge hergestellt wurden, warb die DAF noch für den VW.
  5. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/03/2013 3:49pm


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tgace View Post
    Being a “hero” or a villain is a subjective thing. Hitler WAS a hero to the German people, at least for a while. He was a villain to others. There is no doubt that the Mongols, the Vikings, the German SS, were excellent warriors. One can desire to emulate their military skill, however I would hope that nobody would admire the rest of their actions.
    Well...you have really misunderstood my intended point and ran off with it here. Point being that researching German WWII tactics for Army War College is one thing. Dressing up like an SS-Sturmscharführer as some bizarre LARP fantasy is another. Admiring the Waffen-SS for their tactical and technical expertise is one thing. Admiring them for their actions (like at Marzabotto) is another. Blaming **** like that on "Animal Instinct" is weak and is simply an excuse for evil behavior. WWII wasn't all that long ago. I had relatives who were in it. Animals rarely kill their own kind.

    Wanting to be a "Warrior" is one thing. Wanting to emulate historic figures that massacred innocent people wholesale is another.

    To bring this back around to the original point here. The use of Warrior Codes in our modern age is going to be different from what Bushido was all about back in the feudal era. I wrote something about the modern reading of ancient codes here. I wont clutter this thread up with the whole thing, but in regards to this threads initial point, I don't think the modern use of the "warrior" title is necessarily a bad thing. However I think it's utility is more in giving our modern service people a model of professionalism...historically accurate or not...to aspire to vs historic figures to emulate.
    Last edited by tgace; 3/03/2013 4:20pm at .
  6. Moenstah is online now

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    Posted On:
    3/03/2013 4:30pm


     Style: 空手 / &#2147

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    I for one really doubt the use of 'warrior' ideals in a civil society. It is of paramount importance in military circles, but beyond that, not as much. Humanism would be better suited, as warrior culture is, well also about fighting and killing.

    I have the impression that budo/bushido enthusiasts are overlooking the fact that Japanese society was as pacified one during the Edo period, under a military dictator (the shogun), and that the samurai were actually soldiers turned bureaucrats. So of course they had to adapt and incorporate all sorts of lofty ideals. But from a distance, it is kind of odd to try to use bushido in society, isn't it?
  7. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/03/2013 4:41pm


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moenstah View Post
    I for one really doubt the use of 'warrior' ideals in a civil society. It is of paramount importance in military circles, but beyond that, not as much. Humanism would be better suited, as warrior culture is, well also about fighting and killing.

    I have the impression that budo/bushido enthusiasts are overlooking the fact that Japanese society was as pacified one during the Edo period, under a military dictator (the shogun), and that the samurai were actually soldiers turned bureaucrats. So of course they had to adapt and incorporate all sorts of lofty ideals. But from a distance, it is kind of odd to try to use bushido in society, isn't it?
    True. Bushido as we know it was actually formed during the long Tokugawa peace. The functional roots of Bushido were actually the "house codes" of various diamyo.

    http://tgace.com/2008/11/01/diamyo-house-codes/
  8. Azatdawn is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/03/2013 4:42pm


     Style: Thaiboxing; MMA nööb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Moenstah View Post
    It's called 'searching' here for example, if you don't know German, tough luck.
    Thanks. I also noticed it's difficult to find stuff on this in English on the internet. In German it's a lot more.
  9. Moenstah is online now

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    Posted On:
    3/03/2013 5:32pm


     Style: 空手 / &#2147

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    It really isn't that hard, but I couldn't be bothered to look it up in English. Some people ought to make an effort to learn something.

    In general, German texts on historical subjects are often tedious reads, though I've found them often better at citing sources and giving footnotes than their anglosaxon counterparts (let alone the French). Alles gutes kommt aus Deutschland muahaahahaahahaha :P
  10. itwasntme is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/03/2013 9:05pm


     Style: being less stupid

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moenstah View Post
    It's called 'searching' here for example, if you don't know German, tough luck.
    Ah, yes. And fruitful would definitely be the word to describe mine.

    Apparently German citizens not receiving their VW's was due to no fault of The Furher's. Also, whichever of you said these cars were confiscated from German citizens were apparently lying.

    From my findings, there were very few of these cars produced during the war. The ones that were indeed were distributed to German citizens. Obviously, these factories that produced the VW needed to be used for the purpose of making weapons and armor for the Germans, and hence were made to do so. Again, this is not Hitler maliciously denying his citizens, but providing for them.

    It is correct that many German citizens did not receive Das Auto they had been promised,even after the war. Unfortunately, this too can not be blamed on Die Furher. In 1945, the Red Army seized Berlin, and with it, the sum of all the savings the unfortunate Germans had put so much of their hard earned money into.
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