222195 Bullies, 3633 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 201 to 210 of 311
Page 21 of 32 FirstFirst ... 111718192021 2223242531 ... LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. slamdunc is offline
    slamdunc's Avatar

    Extraordinarily Ordinary

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    2,137

    Posted On:
    3/11/2013 1:51pm

    supporting member
     Style: TKD, CMA & American Kenpo

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Azatdawn View Post
    *dropping people in ice water to see how long it took until they died (feel free to correct me there)
    You are spot-on and need no correction. My reference to this horrific experimentation is pointing out the data ("Exitus" table) it yielded. The things they learned were used to prevent and treat hypothermia. A lot of this information is the basis for a lot of cold-weather training used by our elite military units to this day.

    Although it is known that the nazi doctors committed premeditated murder in the name of scientific research, the data is still utilized. IMHO, it is unethical to use information obtained from these experiments, but it is what it is.

    Vivien Spitz was a court reporter during the trials of these doctors (The Nuremberg Trials). I read her book Doctors From Hell: The Horrific Account of Nazi Experiments on Humans. This is an eye-opening account of gruesome events.

  2. ChuckWepner is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Chicago / Michigan
    Posts
    391

    Posted On:
    3/11/2013 1:55pm


     

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ignoscant View Post
    While I totally disagree that he should be commended for anything he did; and giving him any kind of credit for the abominable actions he procured upon hapless victims. I have to be the devils advocate here and say that his sciences and medical research (though well below any moral or ethical practices) as well as engineering feats catapulted both medical and engineering advancements around the world.

    On one hand to use any of the medical research he acquired by slaughtering and torturing people is somewhat unethical; to not use it to the benefits of man kind and advancement of medicine would mean that lives would have been lost in vain and entirely for nothing.

    I can not condone his method or his practices; the practices which should not have seen daylight under any circumstances. But to say he achieved nothing would be factually wrong. No matter how disturbing. And it may actually be legitimate to commend him on his engineering practices.

    While the practice and application of something may be evil or deceptive the end result can be used for good. At that point I guess it depends on your views of good and / or evil as to weather its commendable or not and that becomes a moral and ethical issue. He can be commended for his research for instance; but not for his practices.
    There is a great deal of confusion here. For a start, Hitler didn't do any medical or engineering research. You are conflating things that Hitler did with things that were done by other Nazi war criminals in the name of medicine and with things that were done by German scientists and engineers whose work may have led to products that were used in a horrific fashion (for example, in the air raids on civilian targets in London) but where the scientists themselves were not involved in war crimes.

    You also seem to contradict yourself repeatedly, although it is hard to tell because it isn't at all clear how you are using "method," "practices," "application," "feats," and "actions" to slice things up.

    Finally, the following claim seems far too strong, especially regarding medicine, where I am unaware at least of any claims that the Nazis made any major, sweeping contribution to medicine that would justify the extravagant terms you use, even ignoring their heinous conduct:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ignoscant
    [H]is (sic) sciences and medical research (though well below any moral or ethical practices) as well as engineering feats catapulted both medical and engineering advancements around the world.
    Last edited by ChuckWepner; 3/11/2013 2:06pm at .
  3. Azatdawn is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Lower Franconia
    Posts
    968

    Posted On:
    3/11/2013 1:59pm


     Style: Thaiboxing; MMA nŲŲb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by slamdunc View Post
    You are spot-on and need no correction. My reference to this horrific experimentation is pointing out the data ("Exitus" table) it yielded. The things they learned were used to prevent and treat hypothermia. A lot of this information is the basis for a lot of cold-weather training used by our elite military units to this day.

    Although it is known that the nazi doctors committed premeditated murder in the name of scientific research, the data is still utilized. IMHO, it is unethical to use information obtained from these experiments, but it is what it is.

    Vivien Spitz was a court reporter during the trials of these doctors (The Nuremberg Trials). I read her book Doctors From Hell: The Horrific Account of Nazi Experiments on Humans. This is an eye-opening account of gruesome events.

    Fair enough.
  4. itwasntme is offline
    itwasntme's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    WNC
    Posts
    1,576

    Posted On:
    3/11/2013 3:56pm


     Style: being less stupid

    -2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckWepner View Post
    Since you aren't (I assume) saying that Hitler should be given a Nobel Prize or the Legion d'Honneur or some other official / formal commendation, I take it that you are saying that the relevant definition is the second part of definition #1.
    You are correct in your assumption.

    That is, you are claiming that Hitler performed some action(s) regarding Volkswagens for which he should be commended in the sense that he should be "present[ed] as suitable for approval or acceptance." Or, given our context, I think this would be fair:

    Hitler performed some action(s) concerning Volkswagens for which he should be viewed with approval.

    If this is your position, can you specify which action(s) in particular you think make this so and *why* they make him commendable?
    Sure.

    Hitler deserves commendation for the development of the VW due to his initial intent, which was to provide the people with a cheap, reliable car. He presented his idea to the head of Daimler-Benz in 1932 so it could be passed along in hopes of finding someone who could meet the requirements Hitler set forth.(1) It wasnít until sometime in 1933 that Hitler found a suitable candidate, the time waited showing that he would not settle for just any flimsy engineering plans, or overpriced schemes which would cost more than the average personís yearly wage; rather, he waited it out until, finally Ferdinand Porsche entered the scene.(2)

    Hitler wanted a car that could maintain a speed of 62 mph, could seat 5 people (2 adults and 3 children, by some sources), attain 33 mpg, and cost 1000 RM. Porscheís schematics seemed to fit every bit of the requirements, thus the search began for a feasible location for a car plant, and eventually production started. After initial tests were concluded on the first design, 30 prototypes were manufactured and given to SS members, soldiers whose job it was to risk life and limb for the sake of their country and itís people, so they could perform trial runs of the new design, further ensuring the safety of German citizens. These tests showed that most problems with the initial design had vanished.(2)

    It has been argued that Hitlerís intent with the production of the VW was simply a gimmick to provide his military with a suitable vehicle. This is false on all accounts. While military personnel definitely saw potential in the VWís design, it did not quite meet military requirements, and the design saw many alterations to accommodate military purpose. Initial production of the VW began in 1935, and it wasnít until 1938 that an order was passed to start production the a military version of the vehicle.(2)(3)

    (1)http://www.hitler.org/artifacts/volkswagen/
    (2)http://people.westminstercollege.edu...l/history2.htm
    (3)http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...nys-ww2-jeeps/
  5. doc8404 is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    50

    Posted On:
    3/11/2013 4:09pm


     Style: Pekiti Tirsia Kali

    5
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Alright, I've had enough and will now begin my rant.

    I'll start with Rascher's "Death" (Exitus) table. People we submerged in an ice tank of water for up to 5 hours. The data acquired was essentially limited to the core temperatures of the victims when removed from the water and again at death. The other major hypothermia testing that Rascher did was placed people, naked, in the outside in the cold to see the effects.

    This was used to help determine the effects of cold on soldiers. Data gathered from hypothermia in water was useless for determining hypothermia on land. Studying hypothermia on a naked person performing no tasks was useless for determining hypothermia on a soldier, dressed, in combat. These studies did nothing.

    Tests to find treatments for mustard gas exposure, malaria, poisons and tuberculosis yielded no, ZERO, noticeable medical advancements.

    Advancements in transplant surgery? I presume you are talking about Alexis Carrel, a French surgeon who successfully transplanted arteries and veins. He worked with the Nazi party in occupied France. But, the Nobel Prize he received for his transplant work was in 1912, several years before the Nazi party came about.

    In fact, the Germans did discover a problem with transplant rejection and immunosuppression. So, the German medical structure gave up on... during WWI. Stitching twins together does not equal advancements in transplant medicine.

    Methamphetamine was used by both sides during WWII as a stimulant. The Nazi method did not significantly alter production methods to be more expedient or effective. The commonly known "Nazi method" of meth production is nothing special or noteworthy.

    Got anything else?

    The advancements to German civilization by the Nazi party can, in my opinion, be likened to the Taliban's advancement to New York real estate.

    End rant.
  6. bobyclumsyninja is offline
    bobyclumsyninja's Avatar

    :)

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Bahstun
    Posts
    7,037

    Posted On:
    3/11/2013 4:19pm

    supporting member
     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The ultimate irony would be if a Jewish engineer had designed essentially the same vehicle, coincidentally a few years before Hitler's push for one. One that Hitler might have seen.

    Oh wait.

    Bug's life: Josef Ganz and his design, which Adolf Hitler saw at a car show in 1933, not long before he made his sketches for Ferdinand Porsche
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...an-claims.html

    Three years before Hitler described 'his idea' to Mr Porsche in a Berlin hotel, Mr Ganz was driving a car he had designed called the Maikaefer, or May Bug.
    Jewish inventor Mr Ganz had been exploring the idea for an affordable car since 1928 and made many drawings of a Beetle-like vehicle.
    Mr Ganz's car was fitted with a tubular backbone chassis, a rear-mounted engine and independent suspension with swing axles, and it has a streamlined Beetle-like body
    Within days of the meeting between Hitler and Mr Porsche in 1935, Mr Ganz's car magazine was shut down and he was in trouble with the Gestapo.

    Lightweight and low-cost: Mr Ganz's earliest sketches for his idea came in 1923
  7. itwasntme is offline
    itwasntme's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    WNC
    Posts
    1,576

    Posted On:
    3/11/2013 4:28pm


     Style: being less stupid

    -2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja View Post
    blah, blah, blah, I won't stand for this!
    How long have you been holding out on this groundbreaking information? ^^^^sarcasm^^^^

    You have not proven me wrong. Or is this simply a diversion tactic?
  8. Lv1Sierpinski is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    500

    Posted On:
    3/11/2013 4:54pm


     Style: BJJ

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by itwasntme View Post
    You have not proven me wrong.
    Ah, but for those keeping score, I would say you haven't proven yourself right.
  9. bobyclumsyninja is offline
    bobyclumsyninja's Avatar

    :)

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Bahstun
    Posts
    7,037

    Posted On:
    3/11/2013 5:24pm

    supporting member
     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by itwasntme View Post
    How long have you been holding out on this groundbreaking information? ^^^^sarcasm^^^^
    I just learned this. I've been watching war documentaries since early childhood, and am always eager to learn. You defend assumptions and rumor to the death, like a true warrior lol. I actually want to perceive truth, so I seek it out. Many do.

    You should be commended for being such a fuckwit. You are an e-cautionary tale, and I pity the future you in a custody hearing with the angry ex, who knows you are on bullshido. When serious business is afoot, the internets IS serious biznas.

    You have not proven me wrong. Or is this simply a diversion tactic?
    A glance at history proves you wrong. I'm simply alerting you to the idea.

    Make no mistake, whether or not I, or anyone speaks on it, you have a serious historical awareness deficiency going on. The valley girl "it's cool to be stupid" years are over. No one told you?
  10. itwasntme is offline
    itwasntme's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    WNC
    Posts
    1,576

    Posted On:
    3/11/2013 6:06pm


     Style: being less stupid

    -2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja View Post
    I just learned this. I've been watching war documentaries since early childhood, and am always eager to learn. You defend assumptions and rumor to the death, like a true warrior lol. I actually want to perceive truth, so I seek it out. Many do.
    Isn't that the point of debate?

    You should be commended for being such a fuckwit. You are an e-cautionary tale, and I pity the future you in a custody hearing with the angry ex, who knows you are on bullshido. When serious business is afoot, the internets IS serious biznas.
    I highly doubt Bullshido is something she would think about when looking for dirt. It's not like I went around talking about it all day and mentioning the name of the site. We were'nt together long after I found this site.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.