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  1. patfromlogan is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/28/2013 12:34pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My KK Sensei said Oyama's injuries came from breaking. He never mentioned damage from makiwara training. Makiwara striking is controlled and much safer.
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  2. Moenstah is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2013 12:48pm


     Style: 空手/HNIR

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Considering that I will need my fingers to be sufficiently supple/nimble to type and write a lot, and want to pick up playing the violin again, I'd rather punch bags and pads than the makiwara.

    Yes, I am a coward.
  3. Tetsumusha is online now

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2013 12:54pm


     Style: Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by patfromlogan View Post
    My KK Sensei said Oyama's injuries came from breaking. He never mentioned damage from makiwara training. Makiwara striking is controlled and much safer.
    I could be wrong on that--I heard it from a Kyokushin karateka and, since I don't train in that style, I'm not privy to that sort of information so I wouldn't be able to confirm it, really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moenstah View Post
    Considering that I will need my fingers to be sufficiently supple/nimble to type and write a lot, and want to pick up playing the violin again, I'd rather punch bags and pads than the makiwara.

    Yes, I am a coward.
    The head of my style is a 10th-dan in Shodo (Japanese calligraphy) and the makiwara doesn't seem to have caused him any trouble in that regard.
  4. crappler is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/01/2013 9:18pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    studies seem to indicate no lasting damage results.
    "We often joke -- and we really wish it were a joke -- that you will only encounter two basic problems with your 'self-defense' training.
    1) That it doesn't work
    2) That it does work"
    -Animal MacYoung
  5. Devil is online now
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    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    5/02/2013 2:50pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, I believe strongly that people should spend a portion of their training time hitting something barehanded for self defense purposes, regardless of their martial art.

    That's the one thing karate gave me that I feel is missing in some (not all) other martial arts. It gave me great confidence in my ability to hit a person anywhere in the face with all my power without injuring myself in the process.

    My son is training in BJJ and MMA because I believe that's the best training available, but I will see to it that he spends some time striking with bare hands. I've seen too many people who've always fought with gloves that believe their hands will shatter like glass if they punch anything hard. That's bullshit if you practice doing it.

    Having said that, I was a heavy bag guy. I did some makiwara training but I never got into it much. I liked the feedback from the bag. And I used a heavy one. And it was pretty fucking hard too - filled with sand and wrapped with duct tape.

    The biggest learning curve when I started hitting the heavy bag hard with no gloves was how to keep from fucking my wrists up. There were some sprains early on before I got it right. A lot of people don't know how to make a fist worth a **** either. This will correct that too.

    It was hard on the knuckles, but I didn't stand there pounding the thing all damn day. Every training session would include a few hard flurries on the heavy bag with bare hands. I knew as long as I maintained the ability to hit with full power without injury I was good to go.

    I didn't really give a **** about hand conditioning. I don't see the point. The human hand is plenty strong enough to withstand punches to the face if you have a tight fist on impact, hit with the correct knuckles and don't limp wrist it. If you split your knuckle on a tooth, who cares? I don't see much of a benefit to calloused hands. I don't get the concept of fucking up your skin to prevent fucking up your skin.
  6. patfromlogan is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/02/2013 6:51pm

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     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree that bag, and makiwara teaches good wrist techniques. I've never had injury problems from either, once as Devil mentioned, getting self taught how to hit correctly. But have had plenty sparring and training - last was drills with a 12 year old girl who blocked a punch and managed to connect her wrist with pointy finger knuckle somehow, jammed it, and it's hurt for almost two months... I would have beat her up but her dad is a 300 pound bb, veteran of crazy central O'ahu Kaju training. One would think by now I'd know how to keep my fists tight, even with little girls!

    I like the way the split wood makiwaras crack loud with blows. The Pahoa (HI) dojo has a makiwara on a support post and it cracks nice and the kiddies are impressed when I do my side kicks - and it's good training as it's small and I have to be careful or hit the edge and cry in front of the students.

    Never done the rope type stuff:
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  7. cualltaigh is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/02/2013 7:27pm


     Style: BJJ, MMA, JJJ

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    Well, I believe strongly that people should spend a portion of their training time hitting something barehanded for self defense purposes, regardless of their martial art.

    That's the one thing karate gave me that I feel is missing in some (not all) other martial arts. It gave me great confidence in my ability to hit a person anywhere in the face with all my power without injuring myself in the process.

    My son is training in BJJ and MMA because I believe that's the best training available, but I will see to it that he spends some time striking with bare hands. I've seen too many people who've always fought with gloves that believe their hands will shatter like glass if they punch anything hard. That's bullshit if you practice doing it.

    Having said that, I was a heavy bag guy. I did some makiwara training but I never got into it much. I liked the feedback from the bag. And I used a heavy one. And it was pretty fucking hard too - filled with sand and wrapped with duct tape.

    The biggest learning curve when I started hitting the heavy bag hard with no gloves was how to keep from fucking my wrists up. There were some sprains early on before I got it right. A lot of people don't know how to make a fist worth a **** either. This will correct that too.

    It was hard on the knuckles, but I didn't stand there pounding the thing all damn day. Every training session would include a few hard flurries on the heavy bag with bare hands. I knew as long as I maintained the ability to hit with full power without injury I was good to go.

    I didn't really give a **** about hand conditioning. I don't see the point. The human hand is plenty strong enough to withstand punches to the face if you have a tight fist on impact, hit with the correct knuckles and don't limp wrist it. If you split your knuckle on a tooth, who cares? I don't see much of a benefit to calloused hands. I don't get the concept of fucking up your skin to prevent fucking up your skin.
    I've always hit my heavy bag without any gloves/wraps on. probably just because I can't be arsed to put them on and take them off before laying into it. I like the feel of hitting something bareknuckle, it just feels better than with and inch or so of padding.
    Dum spiro, spero.
    Tada gan iarracht.
  8. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    5/03/2013 11:29am

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm a believer in bag gloves on the heavy bag. If you use good boxing mechanics and do lots of hard rounds, you should be able to hit the bag hard enough to hurt your hands. I know some karateka etc disagree here cause they do it bareknuckle, but sometimes they're just not hitting as hard as they could be. If you want to strike it a while without gloves that's cool. I usually do too. As an exercise and power development tool I think one's better off with gloves.

    I used to have a hanging log wrapped in sisal rope, that I'd hit with shutos etc, usually as a cool down after regular bagwork. It has since been replaced with a 30lb kettlebell on a chain, hung at neck level.
  9. Devil is online now
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    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    5/03/2013 11:39am

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    I'm a believer in bag gloves on the heavy bag. If you use good boxing mechanics and do lots of hard rounds, you should be able to hit the bag hard enough to hurt your hands. I know some karateka etc disagree here cause they do it bareknuckle, but sometimes they're just not hitting as hard as they could be. If you want to strike it a while without gloves that's cool. I usually do too. As an exercise and power development tool I think one's better off with gloves.

    I used to have a hanging log wrapped in sisal rope, that I'd hit with shutos etc, usually as a cool down after regular bagwork. It has since been replaced with a 30lb kettlebell on a chain, hung at neck level.
    I agree most bagwork should be done with gloves.

    The argument that people aren't destroying their hands when they hit the bag with full power because they're not hitting hard is the typical argument from people who can't do it, and it's false.
  10. whatever123 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/05/2013 10:38am


     Style: KK TKD GJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by crappler View Post
    studies seem to indicate no lasting damage results.
    There were studies on long term effect of Makiwara training?
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