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  1. Mister is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/25/2013 12:57pm


     Style: Injured

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by franginho View Post
    Sets: simple 3x5 (3 sets with 5 reps each, about 1:30 break between sets)
    Weights: I will increase 5lbs - 10lbs each training unless I feel that I can do more during the first set, then I will add another 5lbs - 10lbs for the next set until I feel I couldn't do 5 proper reps. - Rinse&repeat.
    When I hit a stall I will either drop reps and increase load or I will drop load and increase reps. (Any thoughts on what is more advantageous for strength and pushing your limit futher?)
    Bro, if you're gonna do that, may I recommend you follow Starting Strength, a program designed by a man much more experienced than both of us?

    Program is simple

    Workout A

    Squat 5lbs per workout 3x5
    Bench 5lbs per workout 3x5
    Deadlift 10lbs per workout 1x5

    Workout B

    Squat 5lbs per workout 3x5
    Press 5lbs per workout 3x5
    Power Clean 5lbs per workout 5x3

    Alternate between A and B, adding weight to squat everyday.

    Add chin-ups/pull-ups and dips if you want.

    Stick to the program religiously and you will see progress.

    That means:

    -Eat enough. (lots for your weight, look into GOMAD diet)
    -Sleep enough. (8 hours)
    -Stick to prescribed weight increments. (5lb on all but the deadlift, even if you feel you can do 10lb, think long term)
    -If you want to add chins and dips add them unweighted after you finish your main lifts, and once you can do 3 sets of 10-15 reps you can add weight.
    -3 sets to failure for chins and dips seems good.
    -Only one set of deadlift because it really fucks you up.
    -5 sets of 3 reps on the PC so you don't get fatigued.
    -Don't under any circumstances **** around with the exercises.
    -Do everything by the goddamn book.

    THAT IS NOT MY OPINION.

    That is the author's opinion.

    Simple and effective.

    I followed this program religiously for months and I've gained 15 kilos of mostly muscle (some fat is inevitable, but you can cut later very easily). And the gains in strength are still coming, I'm at a point where the squats are so difficult that I am contemplating the meaning of existence and why I'm doing this to myself between sets. So I'm almost finished you could say. This program is tough.

    Best part is you don't have to log anything, there's an excel sheet logbook http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wi..._and_Downloads and even an android application if you use a smartphone.

    This addresses ALL of your concerns.

    No excuses now bro.

    I've tried to help you best as I can, I wish you all the best.

    Good luck.

    For more info get the book. It's cheap and has a load of great information that's useful for any lifting program.
  2. franginho is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/25/2013 1:44pm


     Style: JiuJistu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I looked into it, but there are two things that are keeping me from doing the program.

    1) Not sure if somebody could teach me that power clean thing... honestly, quick/explosive movement with a heavy weight, that just screams "**** up" if you have bad form....And I am not sure if I could learn it all by just watching some youtube video, the little errors are what **** you up. Not really a line at the power rack so I am not sure if people could help me on this one.

    2) Back to my main issue, Time.
    If you look at it, the warm up sets are not to be ignored. For instance, instead of doing 15 reps total on squats I would be doing 35. And that goes for all, except the dead lift, here it is just 20 in stead of 15 reps.
    Plus the up and down and up with the weights for the warm up sets.
    I might give it a shot on Wednesday to see if I can cramp that in but If I leave even 1 min. of break in between sets, I spend 21 min. "stending around/changing weights" and lets say 1 min for actually doing each set (which I say sounds crazy) I would be hard pressed for time.

    Right now I do a basic warm up and then the movement for one set with an empty bar to warm up.

    As you said, the guy seems to have his stuff down. (Who am I to argue about that) it is just that I don't see myself doing that in my given time frame.
  3. Mister is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/25/2013 4:31pm


     Style: Injured

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by franginho View Post
    I looked into it, but there are two things that are keeping me from doing the program.

    1) Not sure if somebody could teach me that power clean thing... honestly, quick/explosive movement with a heavy weight, that just screams "**** up" if you have bad form....And I am not sure if I could learn it all by just watching some youtube video, the little errors are what **** you up. Not really a line at the power rack so I am not sure if people could help me on this one.
    If you're smart and attentive, yes, you can learn the PC from the book and videos. I did.

    I was told this by my coach and I'll tell it to you, if you're gonna learn to lift on your own you have to be really attentive. You have to pay attention to all the cues described in the book and think about them WHILE lifting not just while reading.

    If you just go through the motions every workout. Weight goes up weight goes down weight goes up weight goes down, without THINKING about the given cues you WILL get injured.

    Quote Originally Posted by franginho View Post
    2) Back to my main issue, Time.
    If you look at it, the warm up sets are not to be ignored. For instance, instead of doing 15 reps total on squats I would be doing 35. And that goes for all, except the dead lift, here it is just 20 in stead of 15 reps.
    Plus the up and down and up with the weights for the warm up sets.
    I might give it a shot on Wednesday to see if I can cramp that in but If I leave even 1 min. of break in between sets, I spend 21 min. "stending around/changing weights" and lets say 1 min for actually doing each set (which I say sounds crazy) I would be hard pressed for time.

    Right now I do a basic warm up and then the movement for one set with an empty bar to warm up.

    As you said, the guy seems to have his stuff down. (Who am I to argue about that) it is just that I don't see myself doing that in my given time frame.
    You can finish a workout in an hour to an hour and a half if you don't **** around.

    At the early stages, you'll be finished in a jiffy. 45 minutes maybe.

    Once it gets a little harder...

    Surely you can make 10 minutes for training, you can skip the rests between warmups.

    Think of something, bro.

    This program will make you an ox, man.

    Well worth the sacrifice of 10-30 extra minutes 3 days a week. The rest of the week you're free to do as you please and spend time with the misses.

    Also, I'm sure the misses will appreciate your newfound strength and physique. Yeah?
  4. franginho is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/26/2013 5:18am


     Style: JiuJistu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As I said, I will give the program a try tomorrow in the morning. See how "fast" I can be while keeping solid form and paying attention...

    1) I assume that I will start with my current weights or should I try a max. attempt on everything first and take it from there?
    2) I guess I have to some how try the PC to come up with a starting weight... Should I do this pre or post the workout (obvious pros and contras here). I don't think it is smart to load up on a lift I am not really familiar/comfortable with so I would start this one out rather light... which might impact the over all result since I won't be able to catch up on this lift later on throughout the program. :(
    3) You said I could skip the resets, meaning I could go 45%,45%,60%,80%,100% with the appropriate sets and reps? Or do you mean I can skip the entire warm up sets as is (because that would turn pretty much in the the workout that I had imagined after this thread, only adding the power clean to the list of exercises)

    4) This is more a nutritional thing, I try to replace the candy with something more sustainable, I was thinking peanuts, high on protein and rather low on carbs, but with a considerable amount of fat (and if I can't find the un-salted ones, also high on salt). On the other hand I could just drink Chocolate Milk all day, this would be higher on carbs but lower on fat...Oh and no beef jerky around here Russ.
    Any take on that? Is the body more likely to absorb nutrients from solid food or liquids?

    As for the time, it is not so much of me not wanting to invest more but my job not permitting me to do so... Traffic here is hell and 15-30 min later out of the gym and on the road can mean 1 hour later at work. And I just don't see myself going to my boss "Sorry for running late on this meeting but I had to finish a set of Deadlifts" :D

    Thank you guys in advance.
  5. Mister is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/26/2013 10:28am


     Style: Injured

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by franginho View Post
    As I said, I will give the program a try tomorrow in the morning. See how "fast" I can be while keeping solid form and paying attention...

    1) I assume that I will start with my current weights or should I try a max. attempt on everything first and take it from there?
    The program will have you trying out weights the first session until you reach the maximum weight at which your:

    -Bar speed does not slow down. That means if you have to grind even a little bit it's too heavy a starting weight.
    -Form does not deteriorate.

    And that weight will be your starting point. You do this for all lifts. This weight will not be much so do not be discouraged.

    Quote Originally Posted by franginho View Post
    2) I guess I have to some how try the PC to come up with a starting weight... Should I do this pre or post the workout (obvious pros and contras here). I don't think it is smart to load up on a lift I am not really familiar/comfortable with so I would start this one out rather light... which might impact the over all result since I won't be able to catch up on this lift later on throughout the program. :(
    Read my previous answer.

    If you're uncomfortable just start with the empty bar, man. You'll get lots of time to practice that way.

    A lift falling behind is the function of the nature of the lift itself, not how much you started with.

    Some lifts you will need to deload more than others.

    Don't worry, your lifts will catch up.

    Quote Originally Posted by franginho View Post
    3) You said I could skip the resets, meaning I could go 45%,45%,60%,80%,100% with the appropriate sets and reps? Or do you mean I can skip the entire warm up sets as is (because that would turn pretty much in the the workout that I had imagined after this thread, only adding the power clean to the list of exercises)
    I said skip the rests not resets, that means you can go instantly from one warmup set to the next and rest before your work sets.

    I don't recommend skipping the warm ups because you practice form and warm up specifically for the task which makes it less likely that you will get injured.

    Quote Originally Posted by franginho View Post
    4) This is more a nutritional thing, I try to replace the candy with something more sustainable, I was thinking peanuts, high on protein and rather low on carbs, but with a considerable amount of fat (and if I can't find the un-salted ones, also high on salt). On the other hand I could just drink Chocolate Milk all day, this would be higher on carbs but lower on fat...Oh and no beef jerky around here Russ.
    Any take on that? Is the body more likely to absorb nutrients from solid food or liquids?
    I suck at nutrition, man, just eat well.

    I'll tell you what I've been told by my coach:

    -Eat lots of protein, 1.4-1.6g per pound of bodyweight.
    -Throughout the day consume moderate to low Glycaemic Index foods. (http://www.findanutritionist.com/res...bohydrate.html) good reference that I use.
    -Post workout you can eat some candy (or any other high GI food) if you want, with some kind of quickly absorbed protein (whey protein for example), and keep fat minimal at that period.
    -Other than post workout healthy fats are good for you. (peanuts are good)
    -Drink a gallon of milk a day. It's cheap and widely available.

    Milk is the Judo of food, white bread is the Chun. You don't want to be a Chunner, do you?

    Someone else's advice on the subject may be better than mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by franginho View Post
    As for the time, it is not so much of me not wanting to invest more but my job not permitting me to do so... Traffic here is hell and 15-30 min later out of the gym and on the road can mean 1 hour later at work. And I just don't see myself going to my boss "Sorry for running late on this meeting but I had to finish a set of Deadlifts" :D
    Maybe your boss will be like.

    OH NICE BRO YOU DEADLIFT TOO?! WHAT?! YOU DEADLIFT 200KG?! YOU'RE GETTING A PROMOTION!

    In a perfect world, maybe.
  6. franginho is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/01/2013 8:44am


     Style: JiuJistu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just to report back...
    Didn't do the work out on Wednesday, I was having some massive stomach issue and didn't want to start the thing on those conditions... After contemplating going to the gym at all I did my old routine and felt way better during and after the work out (WTF?!)

    Tried it today(the same I would be doing on Monday, when I intend to initiate the Starting Strength program) and while the workout felt okay (honestly I didn't break that much a sweat, mainly due to not doing that much dead lifts I guess.)

    My problem with the entire work out is this... changing plates all the time during the warm up sets.

    Lets look at an example here:

    At my gym we have the following plates in general:
    20kg (1 kg = 2.20462 lbs for you 'mericanucs)
    15kg
    10kg
    5kg
    2kg
    1kg

    So my workout for bench press in 2 weeks would look like this...

    8kg (split in 2x2kg on each side) for the first 2 sets with 5 reps each
    16kg (I guess 2x5kg plus 2x2 and 2x1) again for 1 set of 5 reps
    22kg (2x10kg and 1kg each) for 1 set of 3 reps
    28kg (2x10kg and 2x2kg each side) 1 set 2 reps
    when I finally will reach the work out weights/set
    32kg (2x10 2x5 and 2x1) for 3 sets of 5....

    Boy, I'm switching plates on and off and not just one or two... but a bunch and you have to load and unload that stuff balanced....
    My issue, I feel like my focus and time goes into switching plates rather then doing the actual lifting.

    Even if I monopolize all the 2kg and 1kg plates (which is kind of dickish) I would switch on and off....
    If it were for me I would do the following,
    Throw on a 10 on both sides - 3 sets of 5, add another 5 each - 1 set of 3, add the 1kg - 3 sets of 5 and be done with it...

    What is your take, "work out folk", do I have to stick to the weights given for the warm up sets or could I mess around with them a bit like indicated?
    How big a difference would it make to go about it a bit like I imagine?

    Thank you in advance.
  7. itwasntme is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/01/2013 9:49am

    supporting member
     Style: being less stupid

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Re: Help me create my workout

    Franghino, regarding warmup sets, they are very important. ANY program you do should incorporate them. ANY trainer worth their salt will tell you to use them. MANY people choose to ignore them. The choice is yours. My main point here being, not incorporating the warmup sets doesn't mean you can't do Starting Strength, it just means what it would mean with ANY program/workout you may do, and that is that your risk for injury will be greater.
    Start a training log!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
    i really think that those who can't get their head around the bowing thing (because their angry sky daddy will punish them) don't deserve judo. life is full of choices, and if your bronze age superstitions are holding you back, so be it.
  8. franginho is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/01/2013 9:57am


     Style: JiuJistu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My Question was not IF I should incorporate the warm up sets...
    The question I posed was the following:
    Do I have to do them as lined out in the excel chart (45% of your initial load, 40% of your daily load, 60% of your daily load, 80% of your daily load, 100% daily load) or if I could mess around with the loads and reps in order to not change plates like taylor swift boyfriends.
  9. itwasntme is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/01/2013 10:07am

    supporting member
     Style: being less stupid

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Re: Help me create my workout

    lol My bad. I just wanted to make sure you don't discount the program due to warmup sets! I'm going to give you the advice Mister gave me, startingstrength.com You can talk directly with Rip there. Having said that, the first thing he asked me was, "Have you read the book?" and I had not, so he opted not to respond lol. I still got some good info, and actually am going to meet a Starting Strength coach tomorrow morning (for free). So just make sure you've read up on whatever you may ask there.
    Start a training log!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
    i really think that those who can't get their head around the bowing thing (because their angry sky daddy will punish them) don't deserve judo. life is full of choices, and if your bronze age superstitions are holding you back, so be it.
  10. Mister is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/01/2013 1:38pm


     Style: Injured

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by itwasntme View Post
    I still got some good info, and actually am going to meet a Starting Strength coach tomorrow morning (for free).
    Fucking yes, man.

    That's great fucking news.

    Holy ****, what I would give for the opportunity.

    Good luck, bro.
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