UFC 157: Rousey vs Carmouche - Feb 23, 2013

**Devil** · Posted On: 2/26/2013 11:00am

Originally Posted by jnp

I frequently watch the UFC from home and this one was no exception. My neighbor and I take turns buying the PPV shows. His daughter is my son's best friend and the kids were both over here while we watched the fights.

My neighbor's daughter has never shown the slightest bit of interest in MMA. That is, until she saw that women also fight in MMA. I believe she said, "Woah! Women fight too?".

She sat down and watched the whole fight, which obviously wasn't very long. Afterward she turned to me and asked if I could beat Ronda in a fight. I told her no, I couldn't. That Ronda was an elite athlete and I'm just a guy who trains as a hobbyist.

All she took from that discussion was that I said a girl could beat me in a fight. When she sees me now, she delights in exclaiming that girls can beat me up.

Kids, got to love them.

You could beat Ronda.

**CoffeeFan** · Posted On: 2/26/2013 11:38am

Originally Posted by Bneterasedmynam

Well first I think they need to have more than just ONE PPV event for that to be a relevant argument .

There are women MMA events, this just happens to be the first one on UFC. Hopefully this one made money and the trend will continue.

Originally Posted by NeilG

I paid a cover to see it in a bar, so close enough for me. I don't care enough about any MMA to pop PPV dollars.

That's fine with me.

My comment is directed at those who say they support women in MMA but don't actually want to support the fights. Instead they choose to call the competition "chumps" and "ugly bitches".

Women's MMA is more then a side show; it's a chance for an entire generation of women to get inspired and start training martial arts.

This trend should be supported, IMO.

**DaTedBear** · Posted On: 2/26/2013 11:49am

Enjoyed the fights, pretty decent card. Had a house full of folks, good mix of male and female. I think the guys were louder and more wound up about the main event than the women, but they hung in there pretty well. I would get another PPV for women's matches.

**Devil** · Posted On: 2/26/2013 12:01pm

Originally Posted by CoffeeFan

There are women MMA events, this just happens to be the first one on UFC. Hopefully this one made money and the trend will continue.

That's fine with me.

My comment is directed at those who say they support women in MMA but don't actually want to support the fights. Instead they choose to call the competition "chumps" and "ugly bitches".

Women's MMA is more then a side show; it's a chance for an entire generation of women to get inspired and start training martial arts.

This trend should be supported, IMO.

It is yet to be determined if women's MMA will be more than a sideshow. That depends largely on how the UFC handles the new division. Yes, women's MMA can be found in other organizations - none of which carry the weight to make women's MMA mainstream the way the UFC can.

If women's MMA is going to be taken seriously, the UFC needs to match the champ with the best competition. They do not need to make matches based on the size of the challenger's tits or the beauty of her smile. And they don't need to feed the champ a bunch of nobodies (Carmouche) so the pretty, charismatic champion can continue to be their cash cow.

I never said I support women's MMA or don't support it. I really don't give a ****. Women's MMA is like men's MMA with weaker fighters and a smaller talent pool. But my observation about what women's MMA needs in order to be taken seriously is an objective one, and a legitimate one.

It's also true that there are a lot of chumps in the female ranks. They often get title shots. Men would be laughed out of the building if they brought the limited skillsets many of these girls possess that are fighting for titles. That's the truth.

A lot of them look like men. Cyborg is an ugly bitch. That is more of the truth. Don't even try to argue.

If women are going to be inspired by women's MMA as you suggest, it has to start with matching the champs up against the best contenders without consideration of roundness of asses and perkiness of breasts.

**Bneterasedmynam** · Posted On: 2/26/2013 12:28pm

Originally Posted by Devil

You could beat Ronda.

Vids or STFU.

**Neo Sigma** · Posted On: 2/26/2013 1:02pm

It's also true that there are a lot of chumps in the female ranks. They often get title shots. Men would be laughed out of the building if they brought the limited skillsets many of these girls possess that are fighting for titles. That's the truth.

Depends on what era you mean. There were some real goofballs who were the best the UFC could scrape together for title shots in earlier days. You don't even have to go back that far. Freaking Tim Sylvia used to be the HW champion and defended it against Gan McGee. Travis Lutter and Patrick Cote got title shots against Anderson Silva. Demian Maia didn't even know how to spell "punch" until recently, and I'm pretty sure Shinya Aoki still doesn't. There have been plenty of one-dimensional, or flat-out bad chuckleheads in the history of MMA that people still paid to see.

**CoffeeFan** · Posted On: 2/26/2013 1:25pm

Originally Posted by Devil

It is yet to be determined if women's MMA will be more than a sideshow. That depends largely on how the UFC handles the new division. Yes, women's MMA can be found in other organizations - none of which carry the weight to make women's MMA mainstream the way the UFC can.

Agreed, it still is early in the game and a lot of what will happen depends on what the UFC does with the division.

If women's MMA is going to be taken seriously, the UFC needs to match the champ with the best competition. They do not need to make matches based on the size of the challenger's tits or the beauty of her smile. And they don't need to feed the champ a bunch of nobodies (Carmouche) so the pretty, charismatic champion can continue to be their cash cow.

I don't consider Carmouche to be a nobody (she is 8-3) and IMO calling an entire division of fighters "chumps" is highly disrespectful. I agree that the fights need to be based on a good match up, rather then looks.

Carmouche was doing good, but Ronda's top game is elite caliber. Hard to find people to compete in that level until support for the division grows and more people enter
WMMA.

I never said I support women's MMA or don't support it. I really don't give a ****. Women's MMA is like men's MMA with weaker fighters and a smaller talent pool. But my observation about what women's MMA needs in order to be taken seriously is an objective one, and a legitimate one.

You do bring up a lot of good points but I find your delivery to tinged with sexist overtones. Probably not what you're going for, but it can be read as such.

In my opinion, there is far too much sexism and objectifying of women in our culture. I see this as a way for young women to have role models who are strong and healthy rather then malnourished and materialistic. Hopefully WMMA will not be just another vehicle to objectify women's bodies.

It's also true that there are a lot of chumps in the female ranks. They often get title shots. Men would be laughed out of the building if they brought the limited skillsets many of these girls possess that are fighting for titles. That's the truth.

That's your opinion. Sarah Kaufman (17-2), Julie Kedzie (17-11), Germaine de Randamie (37-0 in kickboxing), Amanda Nunes (7-3) just signed up to the new division. As WMMA grows, so will it's talent pool.

A lot of them look like men. Cyborg is an ugly bitch. That is more of the truth. Don't even try to argue.

Why does it matter what they look like? Do you care about a male fighter's looks or more about their abilities? Just because they don't meet your standards of beauty, doesn't make it OK to dismiss or objectify them as fighters. They get in the ring and bring it, that's a good thing for MA.

If women are going to be inspired by women's MMA as you suggest, it has to start with matching the champs up against the best contenders without consideration of roundness of asses and perkiness of breasts.

Agreed.

**Devil** · Posted On: 2/26/2013 1:56pm

Originally Posted by Neo Sigma

Depends on what era you mean. There were some real goofballs who were the best the UFC could scrape together for title shots in earlier days. You don't even have to go back that far. Freaking Tim Sylvia used to be the HW champion and defended it against Gan McGee. Travis Lutter and Patrick Cote got title shots against Anderson Silva. Demian Maia didn't even know how to spell "punch" until recently, and I'm pretty sure Shinya Aoki still doesn't. There have been plenty of one-dimensional, or flat-out bad chuckleheads in the history of MMA that people still paid to see.

By all means, let's encourage the proliferation of shitty female fighters since there have been shitty male fighters. Makes perfect sense.

**Devil** · Posted On: 2/26/2013 2:04pm

Originally Posted by CoffeeFan

Agreed, it still is early in the game and a lot of what will happen depends on what the UFC does with the division.

I don't consider Carmouche to be a nobody (she is 8-3) and IMO calling an entire division of fighters "chumps" is highly disrespectful. I agree that the fights need to be based on a good match up, rather then looks.

Carmouche was doing good, but Ronda's top game is elite caliber. Hard to find people to compete in that level until support for the division grows and more people enter
WMMA.

You do bring up a lot of good points but I find your delivery to tinged with sexist overtones. Probably not what you're going for, but it can be read as such.

In my opinion, there is far too much sexism and objectifying of women in our culture. I see this as a way for young women to have role models who are strong and healthy rather then malnourished and materialistic. Hopefully WMMA will not be just another vehicle to objectify women's bodies.

That's your opinion. Sarah Kaufman (17-2), Julie Kedzie (17-11), Germaine de Randamie (37-0 in kickboxing), Amanda Nunes (7-3) just signed up to the new division. As WMMA grows, so will it's talent pool.

Why does it matter what they look like? Do you care about a male fighter's looks or more about their abilities? Just because they don't meet your standards of beauty, doesn't make it OK to dismiss or objectify them as fighters. They get in the ring and bring it, that's a good thing for MA.

Agreed.

A few things here...

Carmouche is a nobody. She's not a very good fighter. She's 8-3 because there are a whole lot of other not very good fighters in the professional female ranks.

If you think calling them chumps is disrespectful, well, suck it. Disrespect is my calling card.

You're bitching about sexism, but sexism is exactly what I'm arguing against. Yes, Cyborg is a man beast. Make Rousey fight that fucking ugly knuckledragger. Don't go easy on her because she's nice looking and she makes you money. Make her get bloody to keep that title. Treat her like a fighter. THAT'S respect.

**Neo Sigma** · Posted On: 2/26/2013 2:07pm

Not really what I meant, just that the talent pool is thin right now. "The best competition" for title shots will get better the way the men's did. Which doesn't change that there's not a lot of really highly-skilled women's fighters yet. But I'm willing to believe that it'll get deeper with some time. Before then though, they should let the division build itself up first before headlining more cards with women's fights. That would kill WMMA faster than anything else.