Squat Machine

**itwasntme** · Posted On: 2/16/2013 11:09pm

Originally Posted by Mister

Also, if you can afford it, invest into a trainer to teach you how to do the lifts (especially the squat and the clean).

I looked over the Starting Strength routine, but didn't like it due to not knowing how to do a Power Clean. If I had money, I would get a trainer to show me, but I don't know that I should be doing an exercise when I don't know the proper form.

**itwasntme** · Posted On: 2/21/2013 11:53am

I started the StrongLifts 5x5 last Friday. I'm only doing the squats as I was told by my doctor to hold off even on deadlifts until my shoulder is better. I started low, as directed in the instructions, at 95 lbs going up 5 lbs each workout (2 so far, will be at 105 lbs today lol).

I have been reading further into the instructions and see that when I start to deload too often, I am supposed to switch to StrongLifts 3x5. By the time I get to that point, I'm sure my shoulder will be healed, so I'm debating on going ahead and switching to Starting Strength.

So, two questions:

1) When switching to a 3x5, will I add more weight, or keep it the same and still going up 5 lbs each workout?

2) Would the general consensus be for me to stick it out with StrongLifts, or move on to Starting Strength?

**Mister** · Posted On: 2/21/2013 12:34pm

1) The idea of both programs is to take advantage of the novice period of your training, where gains come easily. So yes, you keep adding weight at the same rate for as long as humanly possible.

2) IMO you should start with SS.

But look.

SL is more mass.

SS is more strength.

Powercleans are great for sports, I learned them on my own, I just can't do them anymore because of an injury, you can learn them too I think.

On SL the time you will spend time deloading at 5x5 and working your way back up, this will attribute more to your muscle mass because of your emphasis on keeping the volume by deloading three times instead of pushing for more strength with less volume (if it's unclear I can explain it further)

On another note: Are squats not hurting your shoulder?

How do you squat?

**itwasntme** · Posted On: 2/21/2013 2:18pm

Originally Posted by Mister

1) The idea of both programs is to take advantage of the novice period of your training, where gains come easily. So yes, you keep adding weight at the same rate for as long as humanly possible.

I may have worded my question weirdly. I get the idea behind the programs; I'm asking if I'm doing 115 on 5x5 and then switch to a 3x5, should I jump up say 20 lbs in addition to the 5 lbs I add every workout since I'm doing fewer sets?

2) IMO you should start with SS.

But look.

SL is more mass.

SS is more strength.

Powercleans are great for sports, I learned them on my own, I just can't do them anymore because of an injury, you can learn them too I think.

On SL the time you will spend time deloading at 5x5 and working your way back up, this will attribute more to your muscle mass because of your emphasis on keeping the volume by deloading three times instead of pushing for more strength with less volume (if it's unclear I can explain it further)

I handle the weight I'm doing now very easily, I don't see me needing to deload anytime soon, even though I accidentally went up 15 lbs today. If I find myself needing to deload soon, I will switch to 3x5. I may anyway, but I'm just getting back into the gym in a long time, I don't see me plateauing any time soon.

On another note: Are squats not hurting your shoulder?

How do you squat?

Regular ol' barbell squat. I'm not sure how that could hurt my shoulder except for maybe loading/unloading the weights. I asked the doctor specifically about squats, deadlifts, and Judo yesterday morning; I only got cleared to do squats and cardio right now.

**Mister** · Posted On: 2/21/2013 5:39pm

Originally Posted by itwasntme

I may have worded my question weirdly. I get the idea behind the programs; I'm asking if I'm doing 115 on 5x5 and then switch to a 3x5, should I jump up say 20 lbs in addition to the 5 lbs I add every workout since I'm doing fewer sets?

Nope you stick to the progression.

Originally Posted by itwasntme

I handle the weight I'm doing now very easily, I don't see me needing to deload anytime soon, even though I accidentally went up 15 lbs today. If I find myself needing to deload soon, I will switch to 3x5. I may anyway, but I'm just getting back into the gym in a long time, I don't see me plateauing any time soon.

I think you will change your mind soon enough.

You could stick to your progression until 5x5 becomes too much, that's alright though.

Originally Posted by itwasntme

Regular ol' barbell squat. I'm not sure how that could hurt my shoulder except for maybe loading/unloading the weights. I asked the doctor specifically about squats, deadlifts, and Judo yesterday morning; I only got cleared to do squats and cardio right now.

Low bar or high bar?

Do you place the bar on the bottom of your traps and sit your ass back?

Or do you place it on the top of your traps and sit down between your legs?

How did you learn to squat?

**itwasntme** · Posted On: 2/21/2013 7:46pm

Ok, thanks for the info.

As far as questions go on my form, that's not easy for me to put in words lol. It also probably depends on if I'm wearing a hoodie or a tshirt. I probably won't be able to get back to the gym til Monday, I'll try and get somebody to video me doing squats.

**Krijgsman** · Posted On: 2/21/2013 8:33pm

I would have to open the book for sure but I think most of Starting Strength you can jump 10lbs instead of 5lbs. But as mentioned, the point is pretty much the same, and I am not sure it makes that much of a difference (especially if you are not a teenager or rehabbing an injury or also training in some other sport/martial art).

***battlefields*** · Posted On: 2/21/2013 9:30pm

If you've started the Stronglifts program and you're happy with it, stick to it. I did stronglifts and really enjoyed it, my progress was noticeable and when I hit 100kg squats I was around the 160kg deadlift mark.

I recommend 5x5. Mister recommends SS. Both are good programs. Go with the one you feel comfortable with.

I always wonder what happens to the egg yolks of "whites only" consumers. Do they just throw them away?

**itwasntme** · Posted On: 2/21/2013 9:44pm

Originally Posted by battlefields

If you've started the Stronglifts program and you're happy with it, stick to it. I did stronglifts and really enjoyed it, my progress was noticeable and when I hit 100kg squats I was around the 160kg deadlift mark.

I recommend 5x5. Mister recommends SS. Both are good programs. Go with the one you feel comfortable with.

Well, I don't have other programs to compare it to. Before I tried Super Squats, I did isolation. I like the variety of exercises in SS, then again I like the simplicity of SL lol. How were your gains on rows? Did you incorporate chinups on deadlift days?

The reason I ask is I've seen a few things on Facebook; one is a page dedicated to people trashing SL, one is a dude on the actual SL page saying Mehdi is a snake oil salesman, and last is a post on the SL page claiming you are supposed to incorporate chinups on deadlift days. I didn't see anything about chinups in the instructions, and the guy didn't say how many reps or sets one is supposed to do.

I always wonder what happens to the egg yolks of "whites only" consumers. Do they just throw them away?

Straight in the trash. I used the two halves of the egg shells to separate the yolk and whites, so it was just thrown out in the shell. Now I eat the whole egg. I just ate a 3-egg salad sandwich for dinner. For a something that smells like fart, it's fucking delicious.

**Mister** · Posted On: 2/22/2013 10:52am

Originally Posted by itwasntme

Ok, thanks for the info.

As far as questions go on my form, that's not easy for me to put in words lol. It also probably depends on if I'm wearing a hoodie or a tshirt. I probably won't be able to get back to the gym til Monday, I'll try and get somebody to video me doing squats.

There are a lot of cues for squatting, I suggest you post videos regularly on t-nation.com, exrx.com or startingstrength.com. It's quite a technical lift.

I don't feel I'm qualified enough to critique your form videos.

However, if you're squatting proper low bar (placing the bar on the bottom of your traps) like Mehdi and Rip would like you to on their programs, it might hurt your shoulder, depending on the nature of your injury.

Keep that in mind if you're told to low bar squat online.

Originally Posted by Krijgsman

I would have to open the book for sure but I think most of Starting Strength you can jump 10lbs instead of 5lbs. But as mentioned, the point is pretty much the same, and I am not sure it makes that much of a difference (especially if you are not a teenager or rehabbing an injury or also training in some other sport/martial art).

10lbs on the deadlift, 5 lbs on the rest. Just like SL5x5

Originally Posted by itwasntme

Well, I don't have other programs to compare it to. Before I tried Super Squats, I did isolation. I like the variety of exercises in SS, then again I like the simplicity of SL lol. How were your gains on rows? Did you incorporate chinups on deadlift days?

SS is the same as SL except you do PC instead of barbell rows. And you do 3x5 instead of 5x5.

Both are good programs because both are almost the same, I was just suggesting the one most optimal for performance. PC develop immense explosive power which is great for fighting. And I already explained about deloading more often on 5x5.

The difference is small and Battlefields is right, pick whatever you like more.

Originally Posted by itwasntme

The reason I ask is I've seen a few things on Facebook; one is a page dedicated to people trashing SL, one is a dude on the actual SL page saying Mehdi is a snake oil salesman, and last is a post on the SL page claiming you are supposed to incorporate chinups on deadlift days. I didn't see anything about chinups in the instructions, and the guy didn't say how many reps or sets one is supposed to do.

It doesn't matter if Mehdi is an asshole or not.

His program is quite good.

Don't pay attention to that ****.

A good rule with chinups/pullups is to do 3 sets till failure.