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  1. vaquero de las nalgas is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/15/2013 4:09pm


     Style: Hsing I, Bagua, Chi kung

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I doubt Soke Hatsumi feels one way or another about a Western "documentary" on ninjas. It seems the program deals with historical ninjas, not theoretical ones.

    Ninjutsu would have been taught by a samurai. There would be nothing to distinguish "ninjutsu" from any other kind of special training. By the time WW2 rolled around, there were damn few samurai left, and probably damn few of those used a weapon in anger. After the war, those participants that contributed to the war effort felt disgraced. Seiko Fujita is the only one that comes to mind, though surely there were others.
  2. Styygens is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/23/2013 8:45pm


     Style: BBT/BJJ/CJKD

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'll be damned if this really deserves it's very own thread, so I'll just stick it onto this thread like Eeyore's tail...

    io9's 10 White People Who Inexplicably Became Ninjas

    http://io9.com/10-white-people-who-i...njas-458378221

  3. W. Rabbit is offline
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    There's not enough words to describe my existence.

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    Posted On:
    3/23/2013 9:39pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Lucinda Dickey from Ninja III should have been #1.



    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 3/23/2013 9:42pm at .
  4. vaquero de las nalgas is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/21/2013 8:28pm


     Style: Hsing I, Bagua, Chi kung

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    Quote Originally Posted by Styygens View Post
    I've got a couple of books on the Japanese espionage efforts during World War II, including one specifically on the Nakano School, and (big surprise...) there's no Ninjutsu Ryuha in sight anywhere. In fact, it appears the Nakano School was a deliberate effort to introduce Western concepts of military intelligence into the Japanese military -- not retread any traditional Japanese methods.
    Seiko Fujita is the only person that comes to mind as "teaching ninjutsu" in an official capacity during World War Two. Even, so, if they were teaching Western concepts at Nakano, Onada wouldn't have an opinion on ninjutsu. He was never exposed to it.

    The survivors of the war wanted to distance themselves from anything resembling the kind of militaristic BS that got them into the war in the first place. It's only later, when writers like Mishima were looking for some kind of national identity, do you see the kind of reverence shown to bushido.

    There's a problem presented when you mix condemnation of Bujinkan with historical ninjutsu. Ninjutsu was not a martial art, at least in terms of hand to hand combat. It was training in meterology, human behavior, disguise...the things that Onada probably WAS trained in, like any other specialized military or intelligence training. First it was used to gain the upper hand in battle, later to keep the Shogun in power. By the time WW2 roles around, any living ninja would have been removed from Nobunaga by several hundred years. It was always about collecting information, first and foremost. The other aspects would have been supplanted by Western practices, because the Japanese copied Western military equipment and training to some extent.

    Hatsumi has his own gig going. If this article ignores him, it's only making people MORE interested in what he has to offer. In Japan, ninjas are old wive's tales. And Hatsumi does not want to be associated with some equivalent of the Waffen SS hiding out in Indochina or Argentina. Japanese tend to reject the king of mentality that resulted in nuclear weapons being dropped on their country.
  5. OwlMatt is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/23/2013 8:56am


     Style: aikido

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    Quote Originally Posted by vaquero de las nalgas View Post
    Ninjutsu would have been taught by a samurai. There would be nothing to distinguish "ninjutsu" from any other kind of special training.
    Quote Originally Posted by vaquero de las nalgas View Post
    Ninjutsu was not a martial art, at least in terms of hand to hand combat. It was training in meterology, human behavior, disguise...the things that Onada probably WAS trained in, like any other specialized military or intelligence training.
    Years ago, before I got into martial arts, I read Stephen Turnbull's book on ninjas. I have since become aware that Turnbull is a notorious sensationalist whose work is rarely peer-reviewed before it is published. To Turnbull's credit, though, his book says pretty much what Vaquero says here: that ninjas were guerillas, and that "ninjutsu" was stuff like swimming, climbing walls, camouflage, etc. He makes no mention of a specific ninja martial arts tradition, and observes as Vaquero does that ninjas were trained by samurai, who would have followed their own (non-secret) martial arts tradition.
  6. evilstan is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/23/2013 9:50am


     Style: Kendo, JJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If attacking civilians and police makes onoda a badass, I seriously think we should be rethinking the definition of that term
  7. Styygens is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/24/2013 1:50pm


     Style: BBT/BJJ/CJKD

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    Quote Originally Posted by OwlMatt View Post
    Years ago, before I got into martial arts, I read Stephen Turnbull's book on ninjas. I have since become aware that Turnbull is a notorious sensationalist whose work is rarely peer-reviewed before it is published.
    I think "sensationalist" might be a little strong... Have you seen some of the other authors publishing on the same topics?
  8. Styygens is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/24/2013 2:04pm


     Style: BBT/BJJ/CJKD

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    Quote Originally Posted by evilstan View Post
    If attacking civilians and police makes onoda a badass, I seriously think we should be rethinking the definition of that term
    Well, going purely from the section in Man's Ninja book (and, admittedly, this relied mostly on Onoda's memoirs), it seemed that most of the time, the civilians or police attacked Onoda first. He believed he was acting as an unconventional warfare soldier waging a guerilla war.

    When he finally surrendered honorably, he returned home. He moved to Brazil for a few years to escape the notoriety and owned a cattle ranch before returning to Japan and opening a children's educational camp teaching (what else?) woodcraft, nature and survival skills. I don't get the impression he was a bloodthirsty war criminal. I think "badass" refers to his commitment to duty, his tenacity in carrying out his assigned mission, his skill at survival, and the toughness required to live in the jungle.

    He's still alive, BTW, so if you really want to question his intentions during his 33-year war, I'm sure you can contact him through his camp organization.
  9. Permalost is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/24/2013 2:32pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Speaking of covert WW2 tales of the Philippines:

    Filipino nationals and Americans were fighting the Japanese as well, on account of the PI being ruled by America at the time due to the Spanish American war. Among them was Sergeant Leo Giron (Filipino American). The DBMA Grandfathers Speak video features him telling a few stories about this time. One was that they'd sneak into Japanese bases in the jungle and puncture their food tins with a very tiny hole, so they'd spoil and everyone would get the shits. He also recounts a story about fighting a man bolo vs katana (and a third guy with a bayonet that was dealt with by someone else).

    Pretty ninja stuff.
  10. vaquero de las nalgas is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/24/2013 8:12pm


     Style: Hsing I, Bagua, Chi kung

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Styygens View Post
    I think "sensationalist" might be a little strong... Have you seen some of the other authors publishing on the same topics?
    Truer words could not be spoken. For very good ninja book there are ten bad ones.

    Turnbull has solid academic credentials. He stuck to the historic record, as much as he could. Kacem Zoughari did a decent job until the last couple of chapters of his book...

    Antony Cummins, well, he seems to have a chip on his shoulder and refuses to footnote his work, which I find astonishing for someone with an MA.

    The most recent Shoninki translation by Donald Roley is pretty good so far.
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