Is BJJ still Good for MMA

***Omega Supreme*** · Posted On: 2/03/2013 1:37am

Originally Posted by DKJr

I'd argue that there are no essential styles, but there are essential disciplines. Takedowns/TDD, punches, kicks, etc.

Ding ding ding....We have a winner. Tell him what he want bully.....

"You won the intellegence award".

Yes with this award you can show it off and not be a douchebag.
It shows that your thoughts are well thought out and you aren't an ignorant ****.
*standing ovation.

**DKJr** · Posted On: 2/03/2013 1:41am

Originally Posted by Omega Supreme

Yes with this award you can show it off and not be a douchebag.

This will be difficult.

**goodlun** · Posted On: 2/03/2013 4:47am

Just because I love black and white judo videos here are two more you all will enjoy

**goodlun** · Posted On: 2/03/2013 4:47am

and the follow up to it

**doofaloofa** · Posted On: 2/03/2013 5:34am

Originally Posted by jeffphansen77

Posting on my lunch break so forgive the brevity...I'm sorry Omega. You seem to be laboring under the delusion that I actually care about your feelings or opinions. Allow me to clarify this: I've lurked here for years & regard you as basically an emotionally arrested juvenile, glorified troll, & general nuisance. This shitty thread could've morphed into a discussion but, as per your general M.O., you barged in waving your dick & reduced it to a pissing contest. So, in short, go **** yourself.

Omegas are like onions

On the MMA name debate

MMA^TM for your unified rules thing

mma for when you mix up styles of fighting

**erezb** · Posted On: 2/03/2013 8:16am

I think MMA is like a bachelors degree in science. The first year you learn your foundations, Chemistry, biology, physics, math etc. And than you move on and use them all together the further you advance.
However the people who taught you those foundations are purists. You don't learn physics from an MD.. even not the most basic foundation course in uni.
The knowledge will stay (IMO) with the purists, they will be the ones to advance and modify whether in boxing, or grappling. And when you want to learn the foundations of boxing , you will do best to go to a boxer for that knowledge. Later when you can box some you might do better with a striking (mma) coach that will work on your strategy.
So though you don't need to learn a specific Style for MMA, I think that the best techniques for each element will be displayed best in a specific style.
The best example is Boxing. Pure Boxing is still on the curriculum of top MMA practitioners, even though you punch in MT or kickboxing. (Freddy Roach with Silva and GSP)
God is in the details.

***jnp*** · Posted On: 2/03/2013 9:53am

Originally Posted by jeffphansen77

Posting on my lunch break so forgive the brevity...I'm sorry Omega. You seem to be laboring under the delusion that I actually care about your feelings or opinions. Allow me to clarify this: I've lurked here for years & regard you as basically an emotionally arrested juvenile, glorified troll, & general nuisance. This shitty thread could've morphed into a discussion but, as per your general M.O., you barged in waving your dick & reduced it to a pissing contest. So, in short, go **** yourself.

I'm not going to get in between you and Omega, but reading your statements about BJJ, it's influence on the guard and MMA, I will tell you that you are not doing yourself any favors.

Both Omega and I have a strong dislike for (mostly new or young) BJJ guys assuming that there is nothing as advanced as BJJ when it comes to the ground. Basically, you are typing from the position of a kool-aid drinker who is not aware of the history or outside influence of other martial arts on BJJ.

One of the strengths of BJJ is it's ability to willingly co-opt techniques from other martial arts. Indeed, the entire sport was born from Judo, which was born from several Japanese Jujutsu Ryu-ha (I'm not sure that Ryu-ha is the proper term). The point is that there is an older sport that includes virtually all the ground techniques in BJJ.

Did you know there is a Judo book published in the 1950's that features a photo of a Judoka performing a gogoplata? Additionally, there were people refining sweeps and guard submissions decades before BJJ was born in 1916.

Now, knowing this, which Omega does, how exasperating would it be to listen to beginners talk about how all grapplers foundered on their backs until BJJ came along?

Did you know that there is a branch of legitimate BJJ completely outside the Gracie lineage? Google Osvalda Fadda.

If any of this is new to you, I suggest you do a little reading on the history of the sport. BJJ is a fine grappling art, but the sun and moon does not set on it and only it.

You may not have meant to imply the above, but that's how your posts read.

**Lampa** · Posted On: 2/03/2013 3:33pm

Originally Posted by erezb

I think MMA is like a bachelors degree in science. The first year you learn your foundations, Chemistry, biology, physics, math etc. And than you move on and use them all together the further you advance.
However the people who taught you those foundations are purists. You don't learn physics from an MD.. even not the most basic foundation course in uni.
The knowledge will stay (IMO) with the purists, they will be the ones to advance and modify whether in boxing, or grappling. And when you want to learn the foundations of boxing , you will do best to go to a boxer for that knowledge. Later when you can box some you might do better with a striking (mma) coach that will work on your strategy.
So though you don't need to learn a specific Style for MMA, I think that the best techniques for each element will be displayed best in a specific style.
The best example is Boxing. Pure Boxing is still on the curriculum of top MMA practitioners, even though you punch in MT or kickboxing. (Freddy Roach with Silva and GSP)
God is in the details.

I would put forward that the vast, vast majority of advances I've seen in MMA, referring to contests of the Unified Rules of Mixed Martial Arts, have some from MMA. So-called "Muay Thai" clinch striking has changed dramatically against a cage wall, especially with an increased array of takedowns to worry about. Clinch striking in MMA is no longer just dirty boxing or the plum clinch because of people working in the MMA rules set.

Hell, a lot of the neatest evolutions I've seen in grappling have come from the use of the cage. Two years ago my game off my back was even more garbage than it is now and I still managed to hit a sweep on a guy who would have laughed me off had we just been doing BJJ, and I did it using a trick I learned off the cage wall.

Sports that have been around longer will often offer more depth, and someone who is refining their game hard enough to be a professional mixed martial artist has a lot to gain by doing other sports and seeing what subtleties they can then apply to MMA. That doesn't mean that they're doing styles. If someone known mostly for their hands in MMA comes out and boxes the exact way you would in a boxing match he's in for a world of hurt.

**goodlun** · Posted On: 2/03/2013 3:39pm

I will add I am a big fan of watching the old Judo videos the older the better its interesting to really see it roots.
When viewing these old videos I have seen:
Spider Guard, 1 Legged X Guard, Upside down Guard, Octopus Guard, The Rubber Guard, Berimbolo, ect ect ect.
Judo (and not just Kosen) has/had a the full range of ground fighting techniques. It is/was an important part of the art.

**ChenPengFi** · Posted On: 2/03/2013 3:47pm

Originally Posted by goodlun

I will add I am a big fan of watching the old Judo videos the older the better its interesting to really see it roots.
When viewing these old videos I have seen:
Spider Guard, 1 Legged X Guard, Upside down Guard, Octopus Guard, The Rubber Guard, Berimbolo, ect ect ect.
Judo (and not just Kosen) has/had a the full range of ground fighting techniques. It is/was an important part of the art.

Oh this again?

I know a lot of the links in the OP are fucked, but maybe Hedge will fix this one or make a new list and you can get cracking!

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31374