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  1. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/04/2013 4:08pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, but if 2x2=4 but you have 2+2 then that should be 44. So 4-22+44= 2
  2. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/04/2013 4:18pm

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     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Supreme View Post
    Yeah, but if 2 x 2 = 4 but you have 2 + 2 then that should be 44. So 4 - 22 + 44 = 2
    There, now it's correct.
    Combatives training log.

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  3. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/05/2013 12:54pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehogey View Post
    I'm neither new nor as young as I once was (soon The Dutchman will just be a day in the life and not a wistful, tear inducing tale) and as of right now, BJJ and its derivates are the most sophisticated ground grappling systems. Sophisticated isn't synonymous with better. Obviously you can get by without that. You can get by knowing only a basic single and double too, or even the first two sets of throws in the gokyo no waza. That doesn't mean BJJ contains all of judo's throwing knowledge. Come on man, have a little pride.



    It is.



    That's false. While given the fact that judoka outnumber BJJers 5-10 times, it's possible to find photos of different judoka doing most BJJ submissions (although there's a lot of important exceptions), you'd be violating fundamental BJJ principles by claiming that's the same thing as BJJ being a rump state of O.G. judo. Submissions are the last part of the fight, after all. Most of BJJ takes place before the submission is ever locked on. BJJers have developed the knowledge base of positioning on the ground to a degree unseen anywhere else.

    I can say this as someone who's been doing judo almost five years in a very judo heavy area, who loves judo. It ain't remotely comparable.
    It's not the point of the discussion Hedge. It would be, IMO, a stupid argument to contradict your statement per se; except some of the propaganda spouted by a lot of BJJ schools.

    It's an argument for another thread, not here. The discussion that we're trying to say is that you don't need to be a bjj player or really study bjj to be successful in MMA (general breakdown).
  4. theAsthmatic is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/05/2013 2:22pm


     Style: sambo

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    Quote Originally Posted by DKJr View Post
    I'd argue that there are no essential styles, but there are essential disciplines. Takedowns/TDD, punches, kicks, etc.
    I am not so sure that styles are going anywhere anytime soon.

    There is a world of difference between a boxer's body punch and a kyokushin fighter's body punch. It's still a punch, and it targets the same area but the difference is in the style of the delivery. I believe they are both quite effective also, so it's not going to be the case for the weaker technique to be exposed and vanish from existence leaving only a generic 'body punch'.

    Same thing for say a karate round house and a muay thai roundhouse. Totally different kicks, but both have their uses. Their essential discipline might be a 'kick to the body' but still they are distinct techniques with neither one being superior in all settings.

    This applies to grappling also. A wrestler's take down may be different from a judo/sambo takedown, but they both work and are, in my opinion distinctly, different moves.
  5. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/05/2013 2:25pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

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    Quote Originally Posted by theAsthmatic View Post
    I am not so sure that styles are going anywhere anytime soon.

    There is a world of difference between a boxer's body punch and a kyokushin fighter's body punch. It's still a punch, and it targets the same area but the difference is in the style of the delivery. I believe they are both quite effective also, so it's not going to be the case for the weaker technique to be exposed and vanish from existence leaving only a generic 'body punch'.

    Same thing for say a karate round house and a muay thai roundhouse. Totally different kicks, but both have their uses. Their essential discipline might be a 'kick to the body' but still they are distinct techniques with neither one being superior in all settings.

    This applies to grappling also. A wrestler's take down may be different from a judo/sambo takedown, but they both work and are, in my opinion distinctly, different moves.
    You are missing the point.
  6. DKJr is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/05/2013 2:39pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by theAsthmatic View Post

    This applies to grappling also. A wrestler's take down may be different from a judo/sambo takedown, but they both work and are, in my opinion distinctly, different moves.
    Duh. I view myself as a martial artist who prefers to punch and grapple who happens to use boxing and BJJ as a vehicle for those tendencies.
  7. theAsthmatic is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/05/2013 2:58pm


     Style: sambo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Supreme View Post
    You are missing the point.
    If the point was it doesn't matter which one you study (between BJJ, Sambo, Judo and maybe wrestling) as long as you study one of them, along with some striking then I don't think I missed it.

    I was responding more to the notion that there are no essential styles.

    However, if that wasn't the point either, then I guess I am not as smart as my mother always told me I was.
  8. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/05/2013 3:02pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

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    Quote Originally Posted by theAsthmatic View Post
    If the point was it doesn't matter which one you study (between BJJ, Sambo, Judo and maybe wrestling) as long as you study one of them, along with some striking then I don't think I missed it.

    I was responding more to the notion that there are no essential styles.

    However, if that wasn't the point either, then I guess I am not as smart as my mother always told me I was.
    Close. Truthfully I'm not addressing anything because it is an in depth reply and I'm working and just do hit and run posts to keep caught up.
  9. DARPAChief is online now

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    Posted On:
    2/05/2013 8:53pm


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by jnp View Post
    Indeed, the entire sport was born from Judo, which was born from several Japanese Jujutsu Ryu-ha (I'm not sure that Ryu-ha is the proper term).
    Ryuha is an excellent choice. You could also say ryu, ryugi, koryu, etc.
  10. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/06/2013 4:10pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by theAsthmatic View Post
    If the point was it doesn't matter which one you study (between BJJ, Sambo, Judo and maybe wrestling) as long as you study one of them, along with some striking then I don't think I missed it.

    I was responding more to the notion that there are no essential styles.

    However, if that wasn't the point either, then I guess I am not as smart as my mother always told me I was.

    Alright, thanks for your patience on this. We could be saying the same things at this point and not realize it but here's my point. There was one poster who claimed you must study BJJ in order to be successful in MMA. That's ridiculous.

    What a person must realize is that there are some techniques and skills that need to be learned out there. You need to learn how to punch, kick, throw, sub. I believe this is what you're saying. Unfortunately there are those that believe once you learn that technique that the technique belongs exclusively to that style which perfected it. Not true. One style can show the importance of a technique ie the butterfly guard/sweep and triangle. Techniques that exist in many other grappling styles but not brought into light until shown to be successful under pressure.

    I argue that if you are a BJJ player and you learn a SAMBO throw and incorporate it into your game it is no longer a SAMBO throw but a BJJ throw. That is your style and you're going to put your own twist onto it. The same goes for Judo. Maeda travelled the US, competed on the wrestling circuit before making it to Brazil. The Judo (Ju Jitsu) that he taught had different ideas attached to it. So do Brazillians do modified Judo or is it BJJ? It's a stupid argument.

    As a kung fu practitioner I throw a kick I learned in Muay Thai. I don't call it a Muay Thai kick, it is simply a kick. It's part of my system now. I do throws from all kinds of systems from Hapkido to SAMBO. They are now just throws, they are not sambo throws, judo throws or Hapkido throws. They are Kung fu throws because I teach them. Same goes in SAMBO. My guys ask me what is the difference between the throws I do in SAMBO vs Kung-fu. I tell them they are the same. If it works I use it.

    So essentially what I'm saying is that yes you can study something but still learn from the other systems. Now if this is what you are saying then I just misread what you meant.

    But no, you don't need to practice BJJ to be successful MMA. You should, though, make sure you study all the combative arts. You never know what may inspire the next go to maneuver. We are starting to see the emergence of the fancy kicks, the staple of Taekwondo. I wonder what'll be next?
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