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  1. Detachment is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/25/2013 10:31am

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    My thoughts on Martial Arts

    Hey guys ,

    First of all , I'd like to say that I'm not a veteran in the arts , And the reason why I'm here is I'm starting my journey in dismantling Fighting for one purpose , The reason that made me feel such importance is a quote within IP-Man movie , How fighting is essential in times of war , When the business man friend of Ip got his ass kicked by the Kung Fu Master .

    Right now , Where I live (Egypt) , Is a time of chaos , Even though things are stable nowadays , No one will ever know what is possible with all the looters & bandits all around , Not to be afraid of any , But one should be able to defend himself and his family in the time of necessity , Other than that , It's an external skill like any other and shouldn't be given much importance & shouldn't be attached to one's identity in anyway , Unless one wants such an act leveraged against him through his own ego .

    Such a statement detaches one while learning to defend himself in time of need from all the bullshit attachments ingrained in every martial art out there , Related to meaningless things like the place the originators were born or what they believed in about the hows or their own religious beliefs...etc .

    All the names of the traditional arts from which mixed martial arts take its structure are nothing but labels that could have been anything else , They mean nothing , Usually what's inside all these arts are physical phenomena that are leveraged through thousands & thousands of techniques , The obvious in learning anything is seeing the big picture before going into the specifics to avoid being lost .

    Yet the opposite is what is used , Most of martial artists aren't very great marketeers , And thus what they were capable of from my own experience , Is to hide the big picture showing the science of such phenomena and how to leverage them , And instead teach them the specifics of the techniques , So that they would be totally dependent on them and keep coming back until maybe after years of repeating narrow-minded specifics they'll realize something on their own , Or maybe the teacher will take a liking to you and reveal a secret or two about the big picture .

    I know very well that everything I said above is nothing but my own observations and it will stir many emotionally , Because of their attachments , Such as the time & the effort undertaken in a certain art or what not , Or how they identify with such art because they've been doing it since they were young etc.

    And this is not really my goal here to be controversial to grab anyone's attention or to get anyone's approval , Thanks brothas , But keep it .

    The reason I'm writing in a forum is because I know that I'd like to think for myself and figure out Fighting for myself and break it down without any BS or biased opinion or narrow-minded perspectives , And I know there are many veterans around here that could help me in the direction I'm heading , This is why I'm here .

    I'd like to begin with a quote from "The Peaceful Warrior" movie :
    ""
    (After using Dan's punch to drop him down)Did you notice how the right
    leverage can be very effective?


    What if I were to tell you that's what your training,
    even your life, is about?

    Developing the wisdom to apply the right leverage in the right place,at the right time.

    Take out the trash . "Socrates
    ""
    What I'm gonna be doing here for myself along with application of what I learn is breaking everything down to the very basics to see the physical phenomena and how they occur and using common sense not including the arts to be able to put the techniques within the big picture and not vice versa .

    This will be my journal for my journey .

    I've already found some interesting books that talk about this , But haven't got into them yet , Which I will (Martina Prague fighting science books & Al Case Matrixing)

    Let me know guys if you have any advice directly related to what I'm learning , Thanks.

    D
  2. itwasntme is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/25/2013 10:41am

    supporting member
     Style: being less stupid

    5
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just a note, you should have posted this in Newbietown.

    This is a highly moderated forum for serious discussion on technique. I would suggest going to Newbietown and introducing yourself.

    Don't repost this.
    Start a training log!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
    i really think that those who can't get their head around the bowing thing (because their angry sky daddy will punish them) don't deserve judo. life is full of choices, and if your bronze age superstitions are holding you back, so be it.
  3. Ming Loyalist is offline
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    solves problems with violence

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    Posted On:
    1/25/2013 11:31am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

    4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    how is your access to firearms and firearm training? if i was living in egypt i wouldn't want to bring a roundhouse kick to a gun fight.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  4. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    1/25/2013 11:42am

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I feel that there are some commercially successful styles that will never, ever see the big picture because metaphorical blinding goggles are part of the uniform. But when a style starts saying that it teaches the core of combat principles without drowning it in unneccesary technique, they're usually not that great. Systema and ki chuan do both eschew technique in favor of principles only, and both of those systems have a poor track record.

    Artists that spar, however, will learn how to apply principles against a willfully changing opponent, so they'll learn to let principles dictate their technique, in a way that's beyond academic (another rough point of principles-only training).
  5. Detachment is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/25/2013 1:31pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by itwasntme View Post
    Just a note, you should have posted this in Newbietown.

    This is a highly moderated forum for serious discussion on technique. I would suggest going to Newbietown and introducing yourself.

    Don't repost this.
    My mistake , I didn't know that newbie town existed , I was originally looking for somewhere like that .

    how is your access to firearms and firearm training? if i was living in egypt i wouldn't want to bring a roundhouse kick to a gun fight.
    Well , Normally you have to get a license(Which takes centuries of bureaucratic crap) because it's illegal to carry one and to even get one it' very expensive , And because it's illegal for most , No such training is available , Unless you're inside the police force.

    It's actually very safe except when you're in certain locations on your own at a very late time .

    feel that there are some commercially successful styles that will never, ever see the big picture because metaphorical blinding goggles are part of the uniform. But when a style starts saying that it teaches the core of combat principles without drowning it in unneccesary technique, they're usually not that great. Systema and ki chuan do both eschew technique in favor of principles only, and both of those systems have a poor track record.
    When you say they're usually not that great and have a poor track record , You mean so in terms of what and where ?

    I would say that I was once watching The Human Weapon Krav Maga episode and both in the beginning were asked to defend themselves in sparring against a knife attack and they both couldn't deal with any of the attacks in such a tight spot , Even though they studied many martial arts and one of them competed in MMA , This opened my eyes to the idea of greatness as in how effective it is in serious situations , Serious fight or flight situations deeply depend upon gross motor skills .

    If one is measuring effectiveness in of such a skill in a serious situation(That' my aim) , It would be measured in its ability in making you succeed in survival , And obviously your own training .

    If your facing only one person which rarely occurs , Many arts could be useful if one i trained in them to the point that fine motor skills have already turned into gross motor skills , Of course to reach such level of being able to use it , It could take years , When I was real young I trained in Karate in a while and played Kumite and got a couple of belts , But I know pretty well that I could have gotten my ass whopped so many times because it was monkey see monkey do , I didn't understand much , And thugs around here are very violent .

    Lets imagine a normal situation , Most of burglars usually are a band of two or three , Sometimes even more (I've known someone once facing 8 thugs stealing electricity wires which all had AK47s and were walking around with them normally) .

    If you're facing 2 or 3 in a tight spot , With one or two having knives , Most of the techniques that we see in martial arts are completely useless and will do nothing but get you killed , Not including the heavy burden of being afraid of losing your own life , Which is something most are not trained in , This situation would make even those who are trained for years maybe even lose their lives in the fight .

    What about worse situations , 7-8 thugs , Or even worse being inside a prison and having 10 or more around you trying to do you ?

    All the above applies to thugs who have nothing but bare hands or knives/swords..etc

    What about Thugs with guns & shotguns..etc, Even one is not easy to deal with withou , I believe that this is a totally different story that I haven't seen any martial art deal with , I remember only seeing a movie "Equilibrium" where Christian Bale mastered a martial art that dealt with fire arms incredibly , I've never seen anything like it in real life !

    This is why I asked you , Because in the context of MMA fights , It's a totally different story .

    Artists that spar, however, will learn how to apply principles against a willfully changing opponent, so they'll learn to let principles dictate their technique, in a way that's beyond academic (another rough point of principles-only training).
    Would you please care to expand on this more ?

    I want to also say that I'm not saying that one should choose techniques instead of principles or vice versa , I meant that one should put the cart before the horse , As in understanding principles would make one capable of creating techniques on command at any time , Which would make for a great foundation , Building on it , By studying any technique and seeing the principle in it , Would make the technique logical instantly thus cutting the time for using it 10 fold , And at the same time being capable of using such technique with many variation .

    While in the case of learning a technique only , Without principles which are the foundation , It's monkey see monkey do and this is why it takes a lot of time to learn I would say .
    Last edited by Detachment; 1/25/2013 2:12pm at .
  6. Detachment is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/25/2013 1:37pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Double post.
    Last edited by Detachment; 1/25/2013 1:49pm at . Reason: Double Post
  7. mike321 is online now

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    Posted On:
    1/25/2013 2:14pm


     Style: kenpo, Wrestling

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Dismantling the Fighting Arts - A Journal

    Detachment,
    You are facing a fundamental reality of violence: whoever brings more to the fight usually wins. The answer to a guy with a knife is a gun, the answer to eight guys with ak-47s is 30 guys with armored vehicles mounted with machine guns. The answer to two guys breaking into your house with knives might be two large dogs, you with a large club, and your wife protecting the kids with a knife. And hopefully your neighbors come to your aid. Martial arts do not get past this reality. Anyone who claims they can are typically lying or deluded.
  8. Resonance10 is online now
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    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    1/25/2013 2:18pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taiji/Hsingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Mate, you need to simplify.
    You seem to want answers to a wide variety of variables and scenarios. Pare it down.
    The physical side of SD is not the biggest part. If you wish to address it go to a school that has plenty of 'alive' training. This is pretty much the mantra on this site.

    When you say they're usually not that great and have a poor track record , You mean so in terms of what and where ?
    YouTube the systems mentioned. I'm not sure but I think Permalost means I Chuan not ki chuan.

    ...... asked to defend themselves in sparring against a knife attack and they both couldn't deal with any of the attacks in such a tight spot , Even though they studied many martial arts and one of them competed in MMA , This opened my eyes to the idea of greatness as in how effective it is in serious situations , Serious fight or flight situations deeply depend upon gross motor skills .
    Forget about ideas of greatness most especially against knives or other weapons/multiples etc. If a teacher is saying you can learn to effectively fight against such with their style, leave. You can certainly practice these scenarios but if your being told you'll do ok its BS.
    If you can find a school with 'alive' training in weapons that would help.

    The bold in the quote is true and motor skills (fine especially) will degrade in such situations..which is why alive training is a way forward in acclimatising to stress.

    Lets imagine a normal situation , Most of burglars usually are a band of two or three , Sometimes even more (I've known someone once facing 8 thugs stealing electricity wires which all had AK47s and were walking around with them normally) .
    It's actually very safe except when you're in certain locations on your own at a very late time
    Huh???

    If you're facing 2 or 3 in a tight spot , With one or two having knives , Most of the techniques that we see in martial arts are completely useless and will do nothing but get you killed , Not including the heavy burden of being afraid of losing your own life , Which is something most are not trained in , This situation would make even those who are trained for years maybe even lose their lives in the fight....add more thugs..guns..knives.. zombie hordes..etc..
    If you can't run away your very likely fucked. Unless there's more of you than them and you out weapon them..even then your prob fucked..sounds like you should get in the army and be in the biggest fucking gang..dude seriously what are you asking here?

    I remember only seeing a movie "Equilibrium" where Christian Bale mastered a martial art that dealt with fire arms incredibly , I've never seen anything like it in real life !
    You are a very young? You will NEVER see anything like it in real life..
    I'm tempted to call you a name but its not allowed in this forum.


    FORGET MOVIES.
  9. Ming Loyalist is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/25/2013 2:28pm

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     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    detachment - are you a teenager? you seem to be talking about fantasy. you come off like a well-off teenager with way too much time on your hands.

    martial arts are not going to save you in any of the situations you described. seriously, a bunch of guys with AK-47s? you're not going to defend yourself. 10 guys in prison who want to rape you? your ass is getting raped.

    don't watch so many movies.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  10. Resonance10 is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/25/2013 2:35pm

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     Style: Taiji/Hsingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
    detachment - are you a teenager? you seem to be talking about fantasy. you come off like a well-off teenager with way too much time on your hands.

    martial arts are not going to save you in any of the situations you described. seriously, a bunch of guys with AK-47s? you're not going to defend yourself. 10 guys in prison who want to rape you? your ass is getting raped.

    don't watch so many movies.

    My thoughts exactly, it's coming over like a badly thought out high school project..
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