Obama's Gun Legislation Push: The good, the bad, the ^&$$(!

**Rivington** · Posted On: 1/22/2013 3:44pm

Originally Posted by slamdunc

I have always had the question and never asked it; how does one register as an independent and does this vary from state to state? Where I live you can only pull an R or D ballot in the primary and that determines your party. I always cross lines in the general election so I am actually an independent as well.

It varies from state to state. Varies extremely widely, in fact. In California, for example, one cannot register as "independent", but one can register as "decline to state." There are also a number of minor parties one can register with—Libertarian, Green, Peace and Freedom, and a couple others. California also recently "opened" its primary system, so that voters select from a pool of all sorts of candidates, and only the top two vote getters (which may be two Democrats in a place like San Francisco, or two Republicans in a place like Orange County) fight it out in the general election, which means that the minor parties in the state will likely vanish.

In New York, there are fusion parties and cross endorsements. There used to be a "Liberal" party for people who couldn't bear to vote D, but if fell apart after endorsing Rudolph Giuliani. There's a Conservative party which usually but not always blocs with Republicans, a Working Families party which is a Democratic front group, and a generally right-wing but one rare occasions leftist Right to Life Party (you'll on odd occasions get a Dorothy Day-style socialist Catholic running on an anti-abortion/anti-death penalty/anti-war/social democracy line).

Vermont has a lot of odd little parties; its Senator Bernie Sanders is "independent", considers himself a socialist (he means "social democrat") but most often caucuses with the Democrats in Washington. There's a party called the Liberty Union—actually, it shares a common ancestor with California's Peace and Freedom Party—that Sanders used to belong to. The party exists in the state primarily to annoy him from his left flank these days, and they cross-endorse various far-left parties.

Those are how it works in the interesting states I've lived in. NJ was also fun: we used to have a guy who ran himself under the "All Politicians are Crooks" line. The only boring state I lived in was Massachusetts, I presume because of the primary of Kennedy Democrats.

**crappler** · Posted On: 1/22/2013 4:45pm

Originally Posted by wetware

In my opinion, the government should be providing a lot of basic services like health care and low/no cost education. However, a government that endorses and uses things like indefinite detention, free speech zones and assassination of its own citizens can't be trusted and the second amendment is essentially the final veto authority. Despite the increase in crime I believe a sweeping gun ban would bring this is THE reason why I oppose an AWB and magazine limits. A retroactive firearms ban is something you can't come back from and changes the equation from something along the lines of "governments exist by the consent of the governed" to "the governed exist by the consent of the government," no matter how benign that government is.

Hell, even Ghandi was against gun control despite his pacifiscm: "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest."

Betcha this guy had a bugout bag:
Attachment 14381

Obviously, this attitude makes me something of an outlier among liberals.

A government with fleets of predator drones, armed with hellfire missiles, who has the ability to tag and track you remotely and monitor your email with narusinsight, and then backed by the US military is not going to be stopped by your peashooter. This is the part where you go "well, the US military is going to side with US!" thus indicating the second amendment apparently does not guarantee freedom, but the first does, because how else will you convince the military to mutiny?

**wetware** · Posted On: 1/22/2013 4:59pm

Originally Posted by crappler

A government with fleets of predator drones, armed with hellfire missiles, who has the ability to tag and track you remotely and monitor your email with narusinsight, and then backed by the US military is not going to be stopped by your peashooter. This is the part where you go "well, the US military is going to side with US!" thus indicating the second amendment apparently does not guarantee freedom, but the first does, because how else will you convince the military to mutiny?

No, not really. This is where I bring up asymmetric warfare, the fact that the US military hasn't managed to shut down ~200,000 people in over a decade across two countries (2009 numbers, btw) and the simple fact that using heavy weapons in urban terrain is likely to piss off even more people in a population base and we obviously don't care much about property damage in Afghanistan and Iraq.

**Devil** · Posted On: 1/22/2013 11:09pm

Originally Posted by crappler

Some stupid words.....poorly thought out argument..... some **** about a peashooter.

You wait just a goddamn motherfucking minute! Your sissified, uninformed, liberal fag buddies told me my guns are the deadliest bringers of hellfire and damnation. Wreakers of havoc. Scourge of an otherwise peaceful and prosperous nation. Ruiner of lives. Mass murder machines. I was super excited about this. Now you're telling me all I've got is a bunch of sorry ass pea shooters? Sonofabitch!

**Robstafarian** · Posted On: 1/23/2013 5:58am

Even if some cunts in DC seek to destroy my ability to own a gun, that won't cause me to vote for some cunts in DC who seek to destroy my ability to own food, clothing, and (rent) housing. The GOP just isn't a viable alternative to the Democrats (for me), much like the NRA isn't a viable alternative to the Brady Campaign.

Yes, I miss the gun I had to sell to afford the move here. It will take a major life change for me to afford a gun again.

**Devil** · Posted On: 1/23/2013 8:43am

Originally Posted by Robstafarian

Even if some cunts in DC seek to destroy my ability to own a gun, that won't cause me to vote for some cunts in DC who seek to destroy my ability to own food, clothing, and (rent) housing. The GOP just isn't a viable alternative to the Democrats (for me), much like the NRA isn't a viable alternative to the Brady Campaign.

Yes, I miss the gun I had to sell to afford the move here. It will take a major life change for me to afford a gun again.

Poor guy is poor 'cause Republicans. For sure.

**Devil** · Posted On: 1/23/2013 9:46am

Originally Posted by DarkPhoenix

I consider myself more a libertarian, but everyone in my house has a bug out bag.

Yeah, but a Libertarian is just a Republican who listens to Bob Marley.

**flow motion** · Posted On: 1/23/2013 11:14am

As a firearm owner in Michigan, I actually like the system the state has setup. If I wanted to sell one of my handguns to a private citizen, he/she needs only present me with either a purchase permit, or a concealed pistol license (and the money of course)

Acquiring a purchase permit is done at your sheriff's office, where an NICS check is ran at that time, ensuring you're not a convicted felon. If you have a CPL, then it's all good, because you would have lost that CPL upon conviction of any crime that prevents you from owning a firearm anyway.

And for anyone that's worried about government tracking their purchases, firearm registration in the state was repealed a number of years ago. The permit essentially says you are not a convicted felon, nor have been convicted or charged with domestic abuse

I think it's a good system, and I would be hard pressed to ever be convinced filling out a form is a burden.

**flow motion** · Posted On: 1/23/2013 11:15am

sorry double post

**Devil** · Posted On: 1/23/2013 11:31am

Originally Posted by flow motion

As a firearm owner in Michigan, I actually like the system the state has setup. If I wanted to sell one of my handguns to a private citizen, he/she needs only present me with either a purchase permit, or a concealed pistol license (and the money of course)

Acquiring a purchase permit is done at your sheriff's office, where an NICS check is ran at that time, ensuring you're not a convicted felon. If you have a CPL, then it's all good, because you would have lost that CPL upon conviction of any crime that prevents you from owning a firearm anyway.

And for anyone that's worried about government tracking their purchases, firearm registration in the state was repealed a number of years ago. The permit essentially says you are not a convicted felon, nor have been convicted or charged with domestic abuse

I think it's a good system, and I would be hard pressed to ever be convinced filling out a form is a burden.

Well, hello Mr. Sortofreasonable. I'm Mr. Veryreasonable. I would be hard pressed to ever be convinced you should be allowed to own a semiautomatic weapon. You don't need 10 rounds to kill a deer.