Thread: Why do YOU think Aikido Sucks??
8/01/2013 12:37am, #261
8/01/2013 2:05am, #262
Originally Posted by W. Rabbit
- Join Date
- Jan 2010
- Southeast WI
In general, though, I have no problem with posting videos and explaining what I think is good or not about them.
This is a video from a class led by Graham Christian, a moron who likes to spew stupid **** on AikiWeb. This is an example of what I call a bad aikido class:
Watch the students in the foreground at the beginning. You will notice nage, in the course of performing his technique, raises uke up to his feet, allowing him to regain his balance. Nage has just made it impossible to complete the technique unless uke takes a fall of his own free will -- and uke does just that.
Look at the two more advanced students who are behind them, wearing hakama and what appear to be black or brown belts. At the same time as the above, they are making the same mistake. Nage is allowing uke to regain balance and stand, and then putting on a wrist lock that is useless against a stable opponent. And again, uke chooses to fall over anyway.
We see the instructor, in a black gi and a hakama, serving as uke for a female student at 0:47. Notice that he is never off balance. He is standing straight up the whole time, and then he helpfully falls over for his student's technique at the end. This is what he is teaching his students aikido is: doing a slow, comfortable dance and then falling at the end just because.
Now, since aikido isn't realistic training for combat, what's so wrong with that? What's wrong is that there is nothing to learn. Aikido is all about physics, and physics never come into play if uke is just going to arbitrarily fall over.
Here is what I would call a good aikido class, led by George Ledyard, a 6th dan in Seattle:
Notice at 0:12 that when Ledyard and the student aren't connected in a way that would make the technique work, the student doesn't fall. There is no reason for him to fall; nothing has been done to make him fall.
Notice throughout that the ukes' bodies are usually visibly off-kilter before they fall; they are falling because their balance is compromised. And we can see a few times (1:02, 1:08, 1:32) when Ledyard is forced to transition into a second technique because his uke didn't capitulate to the first one. He is applying aikido on the fly in a dynamic situation for which there is no prescribed ending; someone taking Christian's class would never have the opportunity to learn this.
Note that I have said nothing about realistic effectiveness here. The people claiming to have the real, deadly aikido are generally ****, and their classes tend to look more like the top one than the bottom one.
Sorry for the superlong post. I hope this is what you're looking for.
8/01/2013 4:14am, #263
- Join Date
- Aug 2011
YMAS Wabbit. Watched NYC outdoor sparring on You Tube. Kickboxing and standing take downs. I've seen many martial arts that remind me of yours. I've also seen a lot of cooperation among those who practice Aikido so their MAS. I would wager to say that most MA have their sucky parts and to me who the **** cares? It's like anything else, if you're enjoying yourself that's all that matters.
8/01/2013 7:56am, #264
8/01/2013 10:32am, #265
He used the word "sought" which is past tense of the word "seek" which just means to go in search of, to try to discover, to try to locate.
Not meaning actually participating in, which is what you are saying.
He also said specifically, "sparring martial arts". Rather than just sparring. So he tried to locate arts.
I think that is pretty easy to prove, and no one really needs video proof of him looking for martial arts when he was ten.
8/01/2013 11:21am, #266
I saw when the sensei did "improvise", but I also saw a lot of jumping going on off the back of foot of his uke. Now, it may be that sensei had the kansetsu waza well applied and uke had to jump, or maybe not, it's hard to tell.
I'd have to defer to Rock Ape, if he shows up, to really know if that was "good aikido" or not.
In the first video, the students in front were obviously beginners, so compliance is probably to be expected. That happens even in Judo...being able to do non compliant training safely takes quite a bit of time to develop, as does the ability be a good uke.Falling for Judo since 1980
"You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS
8/01/2013 1:29pm, #267
I recognize his weasel words for what they are, yet i do not buy his claim either way.
I stand by my criticisms as stated.
"I tried to locate hard sparring martial arts." isn't an appropriate answer to "Do you spar?"
He's still a liar even if you want to absolve him of the weasel words.
8/01/2013 1:34pm, #268
8/01/2013 3:42pm, #269
Remember, my background is mostly in CLF, a sister to Hung Ga. I know what I'm talking about.
8/02/2013 7:12am, #270