228070 Bullies, 4708 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 261 to 270 of 272
Page 27 of 28 FirstFirst ... 172324252627 28 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Permalost is offline
    Permalost's Avatar

    pro nonsense self defense

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    12,585

    Posted On:
    8/01/2013 12:37am

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    I would like to see the video of good Aikido. Don't hate me for asking.
    One of my training partners has been uploading vids from one of my group's martial arts demos, including some of Guro/Sensei Marc Fox, who's an aikido teacher, LEO defensive tactics teacer, FMA guro, Tang soo do black belt etc. I'll try to find some good examples tomorrow.
  2. OwlMatt is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    890

    Posted On:
    8/01/2013 2:05am


     Style: aikido

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit
    I would like to see the video of good Aikido. Don't hate me for asking.
    The reason I didn't acquiesce to your request earlier is that the only claims I was really trying to defend were (a) that training is better than not training, and, (b) in reference to your quote of my comment on the video, that telekinesis isn't real. I didn't think I could demonstrate either of those two things by posting a video of aikido.

    In general, though, I have no problem with posting videos and explaining what I think is good or not about them.

    This is a video from a class led by Graham Christian, a moron who likes to spew stupid **** on AikiWeb. This is an example of what I call a bad aikido class:

    Watch the students in the foreground at the beginning. You will notice nage, in the course of performing his technique, raises uke up to his feet, allowing him to regain his balance. Nage has just made it impossible to complete the technique unless uke takes a fall of his own free will -- and uke does just that.

    Look at the two more advanced students who are behind them, wearing hakama and what appear to be black or brown belts. At the same time as the above, they are making the same mistake. Nage is allowing uke to regain balance and stand, and then putting on a wrist lock that is useless against a stable opponent. And again, uke chooses to fall over anyway.

    We see the instructor, in a black gi and a hakama, serving as uke for a female student at 0:47. Notice that he is never off balance. He is standing straight up the whole time, and then he helpfully falls over for his student's technique at the end. This is what he is teaching his students aikido is: doing a slow, comfortable dance and then falling at the end just because.

    Now, since aikido isn't realistic training for combat, what's so wrong with that? What's wrong is that there is nothing to learn. Aikido is all about physics, and physics never come into play if uke is just going to arbitrarily fall over.

    Here is what I would call a good aikido class, led by George Ledyard, a 6th dan in Seattle:

    Notice at 0:12 that when Ledyard and the student aren't connected in a way that would make the technique work, the student doesn't fall. There is no reason for him to fall; nothing has been done to make him fall.

    Notice throughout that the ukes' bodies are usually visibly off-kilter before they fall; they are falling because their balance is compromised. And we can see a few times (1:02, 1:08, 1:32) when Ledyard is forced to transition into a second technique because his uke didn't capitulate to the first one. He is applying aikido on the fly in a dynamic situation for which there is no prescribed ending; someone taking Christian's class would never have the opportunity to learn this.

    Note that I have said nothing about realistic effectiveness here. The people claiming to have the real, deadly aikido are generally ****, and their classes tend to look more like the top one than the bottom one.

    Sorry for the superlong post. I hope this is what you're looking for.
  3. atheistmantis is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    446

    Posted On:
    8/01/2013 4:14am

    supporting member
     Style: Tang Soo Don't Retired

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    YMAS Wabbit. Watched NYC outdoor sparring on You Tube. Kickboxing and standing take downs. I've seen many martial arts that remind me of yours. I've also seen a lot of cooperation among those who practice Aikido so their MAS. I would wager to say that most MA have their sucky parts and to me who the **** cares? It's like anything else, if you're enjoying yourself that's all that matters.
  4. ermghoti is online now
    ermghoti's Avatar

    Middleweight

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    OW, MY KNEE
    Posts
    2,217

    Posted On:
    8/01/2013 7:56am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ+Sanda

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by OwlMatt View Post
    I don't think this is quite it. Aikido, as far as I can tell, doesn't really have the kind of commercialism problems one sees in other arts: I've never seen a storefront aikido club and I've never known an aikido club to throw rank around for money like some taekwondo and karate clubs do. There just isn't enough money in aikido to create these kinds of problems.
    Fair enough, but there is a strip mall Aikido dojo about a mile from my house, and I've seen others. Maybe it's a local thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by strikistanian View Post
    DROP SEIONAGI ************! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
  5. Diesel_tke is offline
    Diesel_tke's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    4,006

    Posted On:
    8/01/2013 10:32am

    supporting member
     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    I don't believe you.
    It's certainly a MA claim, which you denied doing.




    So your track record on this thread alone is one of a liar.
    Let's hear your MA resume for shits and giggles anyhow.






    Desperate?
    No that's you, grasping for straws, invoking "us", shifting burden and being confused about your own posting history.
    Since you are arguing this so much, I believe he worded his response very specifically. He said: "Since I was ten, I've sought out alive, hard sparring martial arts."

    He used the word "sought" which is past tense of the word "seek" which just means to go in search of, to try to discover, to try to locate.

    Not meaning actually participating in, which is what you are saying.

    He also said specifically, "sparring martial arts". Rather than just sparring. So he tried to locate arts.

    I think that is pretty easy to prove, and no one really needs video proof of him looking for martial arts when he was ten.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
  6. BKR is online now
    BKR's Avatar

    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry, Idaho
    Posts
    4,735

    Posted On:
    8/01/2013 11:21am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by OwlMatt View Post
    The reason I didn't acquiesce to your request earlier is that the only claims I was really trying to defend were (a) that training is better than not training, and, (b) in reference to your quote of my comment on the video, that telekinesis isn't real. I didn't think I could demonstrate either of those two things by posting a video of aikido.

    In general, though, I have no problem with posting videos and explaining what I think is good or not about them.

    This is a video from a class led by Graham Christian, a moron who likes to spew stupid **** on AikiWeb. This is an example of what I call a bad aikido class:

    Watch the students in the foreground at the beginning. You will notice nage, in the course of performing his technique, raises uke up to his feet, allowing him to regain his balance. Nage has just made it impossible to complete the technique unless uke takes a fall of his own free will -- and uke does just that.

    Look at the two more advanced students who are behind them, wearing hakama and what appear to be black or brown belts. At the same time as the above, they are making the same mistake. Nage is allowing uke to regain balance and stand, and then putting on a wrist lock that is useless against a stable opponent. And again, uke chooses to fall over anyway.

    We see the instructor, in a black gi and a hakama, serving as uke for a female student at 0:47. Notice that he is never off balance. He is standing straight up the whole time, and then he helpfully falls over for his student's technique at the end. This is what he is teaching his students aikido is: doing a slow, comfortable dance and then falling at the end just because.

    Now, since aikido isn't realistic training for combat, what's so wrong with that? What's wrong is that there is nothing to learn. Aikido is all about physics, and physics never come into play if uke is just going to arbitrarily fall over.

    Here is what I would call a good aikido class, led by George Ledyard, a 6th dan in Seattle:

    Notice at 0:12 that when Ledyard and the student aren't connected in a way that would make the technique work, the student doesn't fall. There is no reason for him to fall; nothing has been done to make him fall.

    Notice throughout that the ukes' bodies are usually visibly off-kilter before they fall; they are falling because their balance is compromised. And we can see a few times (1:02, 1:08, 1:32) when Ledyard is forced to transition into a second technique because his uke didn't capitulate to the first one. He is applying aikido on the fly in a dynamic situation for which there is no prescribed ending; someone taking Christian's class would never have the opportunity to learn this.

    Note that I have said nothing about realistic effectiveness here. The people claiming to have the real, deadly aikido are generally ****, and their classes tend to look more like the top one than the bottom one.

    Sorry for the superlong post. I hope this is what you're looking for.
    That was certainly a contrast in training in those two videos.

    I saw when the sensei did "improvise", but I also saw a lot of jumping going on off the back of foot of his uke. Now, it may be that sensei had the kansetsu waza well applied and uke had to jump, or maybe not, it's hard to tell.

    I'd have to defer to Rock Ape, if he shows up, to really know if that was "good aikido" or not.

    In the first video, the students in front were obviously beginners, so compliance is probably to be expected. That happens even in Judo...being able to do non compliant training safely takes quite a bit of time to develop, as does the ability be a good uke.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  7. ChenPengFi is online now
    ChenPengFi's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Hawai'i
    Posts
    3,260

    Posted On:
    8/01/2013 1:29pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Hung Gar, Choy Lay Fut

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel_tke View Post
    Since you are arguing this so much, I believe he worded his response very specifically. He said: "Since I was ten, I've sought out alive, hard sparring martial arts."

    He used the word "sought" which is past tense of the word "seek" which just means to go in search of, to try to discover, to try to locate.

    Not meaning actually participating in, which is what you are saying.

    He also said specifically, "sparring martial arts". Rather than just sparring. So he tried to locate arts.

    I think that is pretty easy to prove, and no one really needs video proof of him looking for martial arts when he was ten.

    I recognize his weasel words for what they are, yet i do not buy his claim either way.
    I stand by my criticisms as stated.

    "I tried to locate hard sparring martial arts." isn't an appropriate answer to "Do you spar?"

    He's still a liar even if you want to absolve him of the weasel words.
  8. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

    Administrator

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    34,012

    Posted On:
    8/01/2013 1:34pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel_tke View Post
    Since you are arguing this so much, I believe he worded his response very specifically. He said: "Since I was ten, I've sought out alive, hard sparring martial arts."

    He used the word "sought" which is past tense of the word "seek" which just means to go in search of, to try to discover, to try to locate.

    Not meaning actually participating in, which is what you are saying.

    He also said specifically, "sparring martial arts". Rather than just sparring. So he tried to locate arts.

    I think that is pretty easy to prove, and no one really needs video proof of him looking for martial arts when he was ten.
    Stop it. You know this **** drives me nuts. It can be used the way CPF is describing as well. Yes, someone can say "I sought out" meaning they looked for and participated in "hard contact."
  9. Permalost is offline
    Permalost's Avatar

    pro nonsense self defense

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    12,585

    Posted On:
    8/01/2013 3:42pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    No it's not.

    Since I was ten, I've sought out alive, hard sparring martial arts.

    I did not want karate kata. I wanted contact sparring.

    I did not want dead Aikido or Jujutsu. I wanted judo.

    I did not want Ninjutsu, I wanted Hung ga san da.

    So where is BS, exactly? Remember your entire premise is based on a misreading of someone else's post, now you're going off the deep end.
    After "seeking" hard sparring all that time, it seems very strange to settle on Hung Ga. Yes, some compete in sanshou, but 99% of hung ga performances are not sparring, they're forms (kata, the stuff you don't like). The grappling in Hung Ga is chin na, which is basically the dead JJJ you didn't want. And you jumped ship from judo to get there. I think you like the IDEA of hard sparring and recognize its value, and fortunately you picked an art where you could claim aliveness while learning forms and not hitting each other in the face.

    Remember, my background is mostly in CLF, a sister to Hung Ga. I know what I'm talking about.
  10. Diesel_tke is offline
    Diesel_tke's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    4,006

    Posted On:
    8/02/2013 7:12am

    supporting member
     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Stop it. You know this **** drives me nuts. It can be used the way CPF is describing as well. Yes, someone can say "I sought out" meaning they looked for and participated in "hard contact."
    Yeah he likes to do that. But I'm sure everyone knows that by now. He words things specifically so that he can argue the "other" meaning of the words.

    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    After "seeking" hard sparring all that time, it seems very strange to settle on Hung Ga. Yes, some compete in sanshou, but 99% of hung ga performances are not sparring, they're forms (kata, the stuff you don't like). The grappling in Hung Ga is chin na, which is basically the dead JJJ you didn't want. And you jumped ship from judo to get there. I think you like the IDEA of hard sparring and recognize its value, and fortunately you picked an art where you could claim aliveness while learning forms and not hitting each other in the face.

    Remember, my background is mostly in CLF, a sister to Hung Ga. I know what I'm talking about.
    Yeah, I trained at a Kungfu school that actively competes in Sanda. However 95% of the people training there just do forms. The 5% that spar are the street cred for the other 95%. It's cool for the 5%, but frustrating as hell when the non-sparrers talk a bunch of **** about other arts, fighting, and having the r34l kungfu lineage.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
Page 27 of 28 FirstFirst ... 172324252627 28 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.