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  1. OwlMatt is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/31/2013 9:53pm


     Style: aikido

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    So what kind of thinking are you thinking about?

    Does the type of thinking you are thinking about apply to any physical endeavor, or just martial arts?
    I think pretty much any physical endeavor. For instance, when I first learned to drive a nail with a hammer, I had to remember to line my elbow up, to keep the fingers of my free hand out of the way, etc. But when the time came to get up on a roof and put shingles in, it was a good thing I had learned to drive a nail without having to think through it anymore, because my mind was busy keeping my ass from falling off the roof.

    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Fair enough on ya, I need to read better. And you know by what means very few aikido instructors make any appreciable income? My aiki kai sources have told me otherwise.
    I can only speak from my own experiences, which I confess are limited to the clubs in and around Wisconsin (though this covers a pretty broad spectrum of organizations -- Shingu, ASU, Capitol Aikikai, USAF). The only people I know who make any real income from teaching aikido are high-level guys who travel around teaching seminars. I don't know any local instructors who make a living teaching aikido.
  2. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    7/31/2013 11:55pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    He asked: do spar?

    My answer: find out.

    What would YOUR answer be?
    "Yes".
  3. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    8/01/2013 12:37am

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    I would like to see the video of good Aikido. Don't hate me for asking.
    One of my training partners has been uploading vids from one of my group's martial arts demos, including some of Guro/Sensei Marc Fox, who's an aikido teacher, LEO defensive tactics teacer, FMA guro, Tang soo do black belt etc. I'll try to find some good examples tomorrow.
  4. OwlMatt is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/01/2013 2:05am


     Style: aikido

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit
    I would like to see the video of good Aikido. Don't hate me for asking.
    The reason I didn't acquiesce to your request earlier is that the only claims I was really trying to defend were (a) that training is better than not training, and, (b) in reference to your quote of my comment on the video, that telekinesis isn't real. I didn't think I could demonstrate either of those two things by posting a video of aikido.

    In general, though, I have no problem with posting videos and explaining what I think is good or not about them.

    This is a video from a class led by Graham Christian, a moron who likes to spew stupid **** on AikiWeb. This is an example of what I call a bad aikido class:

    Watch the students in the foreground at the beginning. You will notice nage, in the course of performing his technique, raises uke up to his feet, allowing him to regain his balance. Nage has just made it impossible to complete the technique unless uke takes a fall of his own free will -- and uke does just that.

    Look at the two more advanced students who are behind them, wearing hakama and what appear to be black or brown belts. At the same time as the above, they are making the same mistake. Nage is allowing uke to regain balance and stand, and then putting on a wrist lock that is useless against a stable opponent. And again, uke chooses to fall over anyway.

    We see the instructor, in a black gi and a hakama, serving as uke for a female student at 0:47. Notice that he is never off balance. He is standing straight up the whole time, and then he helpfully falls over for his student's technique at the end. This is what he is teaching his students aikido is: doing a slow, comfortable dance and then falling at the end just because.

    Now, since aikido isn't realistic training for combat, what's so wrong with that? What's wrong is that there is nothing to learn. Aikido is all about physics, and physics never come into play if uke is just going to arbitrarily fall over.

    Here is what I would call a good aikido class, led by George Ledyard, a 6th dan in Seattle:

    Notice at 0:12 that when Ledyard and the student aren't connected in a way that would make the technique work, the student doesn't fall. There is no reason for him to fall; nothing has been done to make him fall.

    Notice throughout that the ukes' bodies are usually visibly off-kilter before they fall; they are falling because their balance is compromised. And we can see a few times (1:02, 1:08, 1:32) when Ledyard is forced to transition into a second technique because his uke didn't capitulate to the first one. He is applying aikido on the fly in a dynamic situation for which there is no prescribed ending; someone taking Christian's class would never have the opportunity to learn this.

    Note that I have said nothing about realistic effectiveness here. The people claiming to have the real, deadly aikido are generally ****, and their classes tend to look more like the top one than the bottom one.

    Sorry for the superlong post. I hope this is what you're looking for.
  5. atheistmantis is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/01/2013 4:14am

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     Style: Tang Soo Don't Retired

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    YMAS Wabbit. Watched NYC outdoor sparring on You Tube. Kickboxing and standing take downs. I've seen many martial arts that remind me of yours. I've also seen a lot of cooperation among those who practice Aikido so their MAS. I would wager to say that most MA have their sucky parts and to me who the **** cares? It's like anything else, if you're enjoying yourself that's all that matters.
    Crede quod habes, et habes
  6. ermghoti is online now
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    Posted On:
    8/01/2013 7:56am

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     Style: BJJ+Sanda

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by OwlMatt View Post
    I don't think this is quite it. Aikido, as far as I can tell, doesn't really have the kind of commercialism problems one sees in other arts: I've never seen a storefront aikido club and I've never known an aikido club to throw rank around for money like some taekwondo and karate clubs do. There just isn't enough money in aikido to create these kinds of problems.
    Fair enough, but there is a strip mall Aikido dojo about a mile from my house, and I've seen others. Maybe it's a local thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by strikistanian View Post
    DROP SEIONAGI ************! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
  7. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/01/2013 10:32am

    supporting member
     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    I don't believe you.
    It's certainly a MA claim, which you denied doing.




    So your track record on this thread alone is one of a liar.
    Let's hear your MA resume for shits and giggles anyhow.






    Desperate?
    No that's you, grasping for straws, invoking "us", shifting burden and being confused about your own posting history.
    Since you are arguing this so much, I believe he worded his response very specifically. He said: "Since I was ten, I've sought out alive, hard sparring martial arts."

    He used the word "sought" which is past tense of the word "seek" which just means to go in search of, to try to discover, to try to locate.

    Not meaning actually participating in, which is what you are saying.

    He also said specifically, "sparring martial arts". Rather than just sparring. So he tried to locate arts.

    I think that is pretty easy to prove, and no one really needs video proof of him looking for martial arts when he was ten.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
  8. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    8/01/2013 11:21am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by OwlMatt View Post
    The reason I didn't acquiesce to your request earlier is that the only claims I was really trying to defend were (a) that training is better than not training, and, (b) in reference to your quote of my comment on the video, that telekinesis isn't real. I didn't think I could demonstrate either of those two things by posting a video of aikido.

    In general, though, I have no problem with posting videos and explaining what I think is good or not about them.

    This is a video from a class led by Graham Christian, a moron who likes to spew stupid **** on AikiWeb. This is an example of what I call a bad aikido class:

    Watch the students in the foreground at the beginning. You will notice nage, in the course of performing his technique, raises uke up to his feet, allowing him to regain his balance. Nage has just made it impossible to complete the technique unless uke takes a fall of his own free will -- and uke does just that.

    Look at the two more advanced students who are behind them, wearing hakama and what appear to be black or brown belts. At the same time as the above, they are making the same mistake. Nage is allowing uke to regain balance and stand, and then putting on a wrist lock that is useless against a stable opponent. And again, uke chooses to fall over anyway.

    We see the instructor, in a black gi and a hakama, serving as uke for a female student at 0:47. Notice that he is never off balance. He is standing straight up the whole time, and then he helpfully falls over for his student's technique at the end. This is what he is teaching his students aikido is: doing a slow, comfortable dance and then falling at the end just because.

    Now, since aikido isn't realistic training for combat, what's so wrong with that? What's wrong is that there is nothing to learn. Aikido is all about physics, and physics never come into play if uke is just going to arbitrarily fall over.

    Here is what I would call a good aikido class, led by George Ledyard, a 6th dan in Seattle:

    Notice at 0:12 that when Ledyard and the student aren't connected in a way that would make the technique work, the student doesn't fall. There is no reason for him to fall; nothing has been done to make him fall.

    Notice throughout that the ukes' bodies are usually visibly off-kilter before they fall; they are falling because their balance is compromised. And we can see a few times (1:02, 1:08, 1:32) when Ledyard is forced to transition into a second technique because his uke didn't capitulate to the first one. He is applying aikido on the fly in a dynamic situation for which there is no prescribed ending; someone taking Christian's class would never have the opportunity to learn this.

    Note that I have said nothing about realistic effectiveness here. The people claiming to have the real, deadly aikido are generally ****, and their classes tend to look more like the top one than the bottom one.

    Sorry for the superlong post. I hope this is what you're looking for.
    That was certainly a contrast in training in those two videos.

    I saw when the sensei did "improvise", but I also saw a lot of jumping going on off the back of foot of his uke. Now, it may be that sensei had the kansetsu waza well applied and uke had to jump, or maybe not, it's hard to tell.

    I'd have to defer to Rock Ape, if he shows up, to really know if that was "good aikido" or not.

    In the first video, the students in front were obviously beginners, so compliance is probably to be expected. That happens even in Judo...being able to do non compliant training safely takes quite a bit of time to develop, as does the ability be a good uke.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  9. doofaloofa is offline
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    I'm Svelte!

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    Posted On:
    8/01/2013 12:52pm

    supporting member
     Style: mma

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So now wabbit has rage quit can we officially declare he is 'Full Of ****!' and 'Doesn't Even Spar!'?

    Oh, and also will the user that keeps up voting wabbits posts please make themselves known (PM me if you would rather remain anonymous) so I can illiminate them from my enquiries into wabbits suspected sock puppet accounts?
  10. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    8/01/2013 1:29pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Hung Gar, Choy Lay Fut

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel_tke View Post
    Since you are arguing this so much, I believe he worded his response very specifically. He said: "Since I was ten, I've sought out alive, hard sparring martial arts."

    He used the word "sought" which is past tense of the word "seek" which just means to go in search of, to try to discover, to try to locate.

    Not meaning actually participating in, which is what you are saying.

    He also said specifically, "sparring martial arts". Rather than just sparring. So he tried to locate arts.

    I think that is pretty easy to prove, and no one really needs video proof of him looking for martial arts when he was ten.

    I recognize his weasel words for what they are, yet i do not buy his claim either way.
    I stand by my criticisms as stated.

    "I tried to locate hard sparring martial arts." isn't an appropriate answer to "Do you spar?"

    He's still a liar even if you want to absolve him of the weasel words.
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