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  1. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/25/2013 3:39pm

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     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ignorami View Post
    Greg/DT

    It doesn't work if you don't believe in it guys.

    You failed because your faith was weak!
    God punishes you for your lack of faith.

    As colonials, you are lucky to at least be technically British.
    God will punish you less as one of his chosen people.

    Next time you apply a standing joint lock, remember:
    "If I can dream it, I can achieve it!"
    Oh, I had faith. I was good and brainwashed right out of the academy. Thought I could beat anyone with the new deadly techniques. I even bought a heavy bag to practice my "strait blasts" on. Because, as we were taught, you have to have something to practice the "fluid shock wave" on.

    There was some good stuff. But a lot more crap. The hip tosses were golden. I still use them as my bread and butter, 13 years later.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
  2. Ignorami is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/25/2013 4:44pm


     Style: Aikido / FMA / Krotty

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Never say you use tosses as your butter, unless you are going to supply sexy photos of someone eating the bread.


    When life gives you lemons... BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!

    "what's the best thing about aikido then?"
    "To be defeated by your enemies, to be driven by them from the field of battle, and to hear the lamentations of your women." ermghoti
  3. Resonance10 is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/25/2013 7:26pm

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     Style: Taiji/Hsingyi

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ignorami View Post
    Never say you use tosses as your butter, unless you are going to supply sexy photos of someone eating the bread.
    I'm rather concerned by the 'Fluid Shock Wave' eh what dear chap.
  4. realjanuary is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/25/2013 9:05pm


     Style: Aikido, bits of jits

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Skunky, thanks for your post, it's got me thinking and if you don't mind I'll use it as a spring board for a wall of text.

    Quote Originally Posted by skunky38 View Post
    Aikido teaches stikes only to defend against and these are looping easily defended strikes.
    Strikes from uke are often looping and easily defended against, granted, but it would it sounds odd to me to hear tori doesn't strike. Why we practice with the type of strikes uke uses I won't get into her (part too long, part not good enough reason).

    There is a line often trotted out that aikido is 90% atemi. However the striking is often glossed over. There are a few places we can look for it.

    1 Tori's explicit strikes in techniques
    Striking as tori is often quite direct and on an obscured line. The classic examples would be the atemi in kotegaeshi (wrist throw). Other examples would include any of the ura yokomen entries, any shomenuchi entry and katatedori tenchinage.
    We do also see quite odd strikes from tori, using more of a cutting then thrusting action. The best example of this would be the omote entry against yokomenuchi. Why strike like this? My guess is both "consistency across catagories" and to facilitate a particular type of training (I think the ura version is closer to application).

    2 Implicit strikes in techniques
    This is part reverse engineering. When the strikes are not shown, could the grappling motion be retooled as striking? This is part round peg in a square hole, but a round peg is good for knocking out circles. See Ellis Amdur's approach to adding atemi into waza e.g. backhand strike when entering to the rear for iriminage

    3 It's not there if it's not practised
    Lot's of aikido waza, and how people practise aikido, doesn't have strikes. This is due to dojo culture and how people want to train. That's ok, look at judo not training striking or boxers not learning hip throws. Their arts arguably contain these things but they are not trained so at a first approximation judo doesn't do striking and boxing doesn't do throwing. The difference with these two is their general quality level.

    Quote Originally Posted by skunky38 View Post
    I grappled my buddy who teaches Aikido and he had no clue what the hell was going on. Aikido doesn't believe in resistance it's a dance and gives the practitioner a false sense of security and toughness. There is no actual resistance in Aikido.
    I'm still struggling with what's wanted of me when I'm uke. I've had instructors demonstrate to me during techniques where they could add a strike. I've been corrected for both parrying and not parrying the blow, which leaves me confused. As uke we are expected to neither "throw ourselves" or "resist the throw", remaining attentive to any change and moving "just right."
    In training we need a range of different levels of co-operation. We need complete co-operation when trying to "get the reps in" like uchi-komi or pad work, but we also need resistance in the other extreme of shiai / competition. Part of aikido's problem is that it gets stuck in one way of training and this lets bad habits form.

    Quote Originally Posted by skunky38 View Post
    Fighting is like any other sport if you don't fight and just do prescribed Aikido dance with some willing participant you don't know how to fight and have never been trained to fight because you've never fought with resistance. If you're a rock climber you can't just just say that unless you actually climb.
    Maritial arts is about violence no doubt. People have taken it on tangents and some of these have stuck around. For want of better clarity some of these tangents still use the same labels as training for actual violence. I would say that sport is one of those tangents (but probably the best one for many different reasons).

    Quote Originally Posted by skunky38 View Post
    Aikidoists don't fight so they're not fighters. Unless someone can show me an actual video. of an actual aikido fight where both competiters have the same equipment and rules.
    Yes, and this means it sucks if you want to train to fight, but not necessarily if you want something else.

    Thanks again skunky for the food for thought.
  5. gregaquaman is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/26/2013 12:11am


     Style: mma /boxing/muai thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok real simple to try to get a standing wristlock you need to isolate an arm and take it away from the body.



    Still not garanteed but better fundimentally. The Akido set up is basicly flawed.
    Whitsunday Martial Arts Airlie Beach North Queensland.
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  6. gregaquaman is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/26/2013 12:17am


     Style: mma /boxing/muai thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel_tke View Post
    Yeah, we were taught a bunch of those in the academy. A strait arm lock escort technique. Then if they pull away you move to a bent wrist escort. And if they still resist a bent wrist takedown. That's the bread and butter escort. It works well until they don't want to be escorted.

    The first time I did it against someone who really wanted to get away, he just took his other arm and started punching toward my face. From then on, I scrapped that whole thing and just went strait to takedowns.

    Whichever idiot aproved that escort as our primary one, never had an actual resisting opponent to practice with.
    Yeah I have had two people grinding that lock. Hanging off the arms. And it hasn't pain complianced people into submision.

    And I leave myself in danger of slipping out.

    I pretty much just figure four the arm with another guy and brute force the guy out.

    It dosent hurt the dude at all but you are not getting me off that arm either.

    Sort of catch wrestling. Which I want to learn.
    Last edited by gregaquaman; 3/26/2013 12:27am at .
    Whitsunday Martial Arts Airlie Beach North Queensland.
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  7. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/26/2013 7:53am

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     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, I like figure 4 arm locks. They work well. I use chokes a lot, because if they keep resisting, then you can always choke them out, then use cuffs when they are out. But most of the time, they stop resisting when the air stops.

    Double leg takedowns and hip tosses are the two takedowns I use the most. Arm triangles work well to keep someone secured, give you an option to choke, and keep you out of the way from strikes. You also have an easy takedown from there.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
  8. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    3/26/2013 11:31am

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The Steven Seagal over-the-shoulder arm break is part of the DBMA DLO material as part of the Hanging Game. If you have the steps leading up to it, you can actually get it on people that resist you.
  9. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/26/2013 12:16pm

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     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    The Steven Seagal over-the-shoulder arm break is part of the DBMA DLO material as part of the Hanging Game. If you have the steps leading up to it, you can actually get it on people that resist you.
    I've never tried that one. I have got some pretty good arm locks on people while wrestling. Strait arm locks from a wizzer and different over/under hooks. Do they have good setups for that on the DLO material?
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
  10. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    3/26/2013 12:46pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel_tke View Post
    I've never tried that one. I have got some pretty good arm locks on people while wrestling. Strait arm locks from a wizzer and different over/under hooks. Do they have good setups for that on the DLO material?
    Well the Hanging Game stuff is my go-to knife defense stuff because its simple and dynamic and uses the whole body to resist and leverage. I'd recommend checking it out.

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