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  1. KravNoob is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/24/2013 5:16pm


     Style: Krav Maga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    I'd say its mostly a mindset issue- if you're not a psychopath you won't injure your teacher with a knife.
    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    Once caught? Does this mean he had your arm caught in a control position and asked if you could flail out of it? Cause the simple solution is to switch hands, not insist on freeing the caught one.
    Yes and no: didn't start off being caught, straight stab from the front at whatever force you wish is the start, it results in a control position, which is where the scripting / prelude ends. Said position fyi being a hand on the knife, another on the knife wielding arm, and a body in between your arms i.e. you can punch with your other hand if you're fast enough, but switching the weapon from one to the other would be quite impressive, the space between your bodies is also closed by this stage

    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    Its easier to disarm someone using a knife like a hammer than it is trying to disarm someone using a knife like a paintbrush.
    Agreed, but which one are you more likely to face in the street from a junkie?

    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    Have you ever seen TMA demos where the sensei/sifu/whatever demonstrates parlor tricks by asking a big strong guy to resist their minor efforts, but are unable? This is because they're using superior position and mental/verbal cues to get the guy into a losing proposition by guiding exactly what they will do. Good showmen are able to do this with body language and suggestion too, making them act in the "wrong" way without even realizing. I think these principles come into play here too.
    I have, and I'll even go as far as agreeing some of it comes into play, BUT having seen the same thing many times in different styles, it is a damn sight better

    Anyway, it's been fun guys, but it is past midnight on a "school night" and I'll bid you adieu till another day
  2. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    4/24/2013 5:23pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KravNoob View Post
    Touche, but I'd say it is more like saying an impromptu stage performance where the show has a well known name like e.g. Hamlet, is unscripted if the actors have no lines after the prelude and they don't know each other too well
    Impromptu Hamlet performance where there's no script? Is that a thing?

    Again it is a risk vs realism balancing act, this thread has plenty of arguments for either side, but few that admit there is a balance to strike?
    My approach:
    -spar with semi-rigid training knives with body protection (fencing mask, cup and gloves). Some use protective goggles but I prefer the mask so you can use more force without accidentally jamming a trainer up someone's nose or something. I use PVC wrapped in pipe insulation. Cold Steel uses a similar thing for sparring even though they make realistic rubber knives.

    I've done a krav drill where you and your partner kneel facing each other, with a training knife in the middle, and when the teacher says go you both try to get it and attack. I thought it was a good drill since it teaches you to instantly identify if you need to attack or defend, armed or unarmed. I thought this type of drill was good- it had real resistance and no specific choreography.
    I'm essentially saying it is as real and as unscripted as a reasonable risk factor allows, while it may seem contradictory to previous posts, even after a fresh re-read, I say it is not
    I'd say that using a training knife gives the attacker a more realistic mindset and attack, and that's where you get real useful feedback- not from a knife hitting you.

    If I say it is 100% real, the naysayers will jump on the "bs that is dangerous and too risky" boat
    And they'd be right, right?

    If I say it is as real as possible, the other group of naysayers jump on the "come on it is either real or not" boat
    Weapon work is like that on Bullshido. There is respect for weapon arts that actually have people fight each other, though. Kendo, Dog Brothers etc.

    sadly no option in any style exists AFAIK that can satisfy both of those, it is a logical fallacy
    Sparring with masks etc, when punches kicks and takedowns are allowed satisfies my personal criteria. Krav seems to focus more on defending AGAINST weapons than fighting with them in your hand, but I think that one must learn to fight with stick and knife if you intend to defend against them.
  3. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    4/24/2013 5:36pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KravNoob View Post
    Yes and no: didn't start off being caught, straight stab from the front at whatever force you wish is the start, it results in a control position, which is where the scripting / prelude ends. Said position fyi being a hand on the knife, another on the knife wielding arm, and a body in between your arms i.e. you can punch with your other hand if you're fast enough, but switching the weapon from one to the other would be quite impressive, the space between your bodies is also closed by this stage
    So like an arm drag before the drag part? Also, I'm figuring the "one hand on the knife" part is referring to grabbing the knife hand or wrist, not the weapon itself? My response to that is to go for a rear bodylock, where I can either switch hands or use both hands to try to compress the knife into the torso (imagine a rear bear hug with a knife in the hands). The thing that can keep the hand switch from working is if the
    person grabs the hand to keep it closed.


    Agreed, but which one are you more likely to face in the street from a junkie?
    Probably a knife to the back while you're busy dealing with something else, but there's not really a way to train for that.


    I have, and I'll even go as far as agreeing some of it comes into play, BUT having seen the same thing many times in different styles, it is a damn sight better
    There are lots of awful knife defenses out there, particularly from unarmed styles where its tacked on, and krav knife is better than a lot of/most of them, but Southeast Asia has bladed fighting arts where doing things the krav way is the wrong way. The 360 defense against a knife attack, for example, can be picked apart with an understanding of the hubud lubud drill.
  4. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    4/24/2013 5:48pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Things you can do to "test" knife defenses in a demo:
    -start your attack with your off hand, grabbing the back of the neck and pulling down as you stab their guts, or press forward as you stick your forearm in their neck and stab their guts, or grab their left tricep or left leg and stab at the kidneys, or stick your left hand in their face or under their chin like a Heisman trophy as you drive forward and stab the guts.

    -have an accomplice sneak up and apply a full nelson or other control hold on the defender as you brandish the weapon to get their attention (honestly this one is the least fair and I wouldn't fault someone for failing, but its a real thing that happens). Eyal Yanilov has a story about being robbed by 2 guys in Brazil: one with a knife, the other there to go through pockets and stuff.

    -switch to the left hand before the attack: a lot of people are only accustomed to defending against a right-side knife attack.
  5. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    4/24/2013 6:02pm

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     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KravNoob View Post
    LOL amen brother, loving the enthusiasm, and honestly, I believe you, if you see the other responses in this thread you'll also see not getting cut is not the objective, not getting killed is
    You're an idiot.

    Your Krav instructor friend is a fucking idiot.
  6. Cuddles is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/24/2013 7:21pm


     Style: jailbait

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Btw, I'm checking out the videos shown. Granted, most of them are demos but... really?





    Yikes. And the ONE training video that is posted on the site is not there (only 1 second long). Unless you can post one up of an actual defense, then the instructor is a dumbass for these techniques.

    Counterargument: Of course we know it wouldn't work on the streets!
    Then why teach it?

    Counterargument: Well the objective is to survive, not to escape completely unscathed.
    Judo, Submission Wrestling, BJJ, and all other forms of grappling will enable you to do this better.

    Counterargument: Grappling doesn't work in the street.
    Then you're a dumbass shitzipper.

    Counterargument: KM teaches you to defend yourself against multiple attackers!
    Uh no, that will more than likely get your ass beat. If you REALLY want to defend yourself against multiple attackers, work on your 200M sprint. And perhaps some parkour for fun/added interest.

    Counterargument: But you can't always run!
    Then bring a gun/knife; you're in Africa. (All listed studios are in Africa) If you're picking a fight with a group of men, especially in an enclosed room, you're most likely gonna get your ass beat. Nothing will save you there.
  7. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/24/2013 7:22pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KravNoob View Post
    LOL amen brother, loving the enthusiasm, and honestly, I believe you, if you see the other responses in this thread you'll also see not getting cut is not the objective, not getting killed is

    Last edited by It is Fake; 4/24/2013 7:27pm at .
  8. Tonuzaba is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/25/2013 3:13am

    supporting member
     Style: (Beautiful) Spring Roll

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    KravNoob, did the instructor

    a./ tell the audience that you are his student or

    b./ did you guys act like you are a randomly picked stranger who is given a live blade?

    For me this would be the tipping point - kind of like when magicians "ask for a volunteer" from a crowd where the co-worker is already waiting to go on stage...

    If the instructor clearly explained that "a student of mine is going to make a certain, agreed-upon movement and I will show a means to deflect such an attack", while explaining the intricacies/dangers of an attack with a blade, Im kind of OK with such a demo.

    However if he tried to create the impression of being able to easily fend off any attack with a blade, he is a moron for he creates a feeling of false security in his students and people who watched the demo and do not know better.

    CLICK & WATCH
    :
    I got BULLSHIDO ON TV!!!

    "Bruce Lee sucks because I slammed my nuts with nunchucks trying to do that stupid **** back in the day. I still managed to have two kids. I forgive you Bruce.
    " - by Vorpal
  9. Soldiermedic is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/25/2013 7:09am


     Style: bjj/judo

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KravNoob View Post
    Exactly, I would add there are degrees of realism however, and I have yet to see unarmed vs armed get more real, it would likely require an unreasonable risk factor that any business simply cannot take
    You joined the site in Jan 2013, immediately gave an overly enthusiastic rating to a school that you admitted you did not train at, came back later to "confirm" said ratings, and you haven't contributed to any other part of the site other than to bump your school's thread with suspicious updates on your training.

    Just to let you know, your ratings and opinions of this school have zero credibility, and there is no one here who takes them seriously. With each post you are actually harming this schools reputation. Either this place is run by some kind of psychopath, or you're a fool.
  10. theAsthmatic is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/25/2013 7:47am


     Style: sambo

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How many scars from actual knife wounds does the instructor have at this point?
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