What exactly qualifies as a Traditional Martial Art?

**judoratt** · Posted On: 1/14/2013 10:53pm

Originally Posted by alex

yes.

traditional is a misnomer. could use something like static i guess? muay thai over the course of its history has changed quite a bit. forms in arts dont change though do they?

Judo has changed significantly, the question is, is it a Martial art? I would guess that every art changes and evolves.

**FinalLegion** · Posted On: 1/14/2013 11:35pm

Sorry about the multiple posts, fellas. At the time of those postings, it didn't appear that my posts were going through. If a moderator would like to delete posts #50 and #51, that'd be great as post #49 is sufficient. Again, sorry about all that.

**Vieux Normand** · Posted On: 1/15/2013 10:28am

^ What he said. In my case, # 51 and #59 are basically the same post (the commonly-used technique mentioned is different, but the intended point is the same), and both are there for the same reason as has been cited by other posters.

Mod: if you can, please delete one, the other, or both. Thanks.

**W. Rabbit** · Posted On: 1/15/2013 12:06pm

Originally Posted by jnp

Because members here like discussing both semantics and nomenclature. It's tied to the "need to classify everything" gene that seems prevalent in many ~~geeks~~ martial artists.

This.

Its also a verified fact that pushups and meditation disrupt that particular gene.

**Resonance10** · Posted On: 1/15/2013 12:11pm

Originally Posted by SpinKiK

This may be the wrong website to bring up this argument due to the stigma that the phrase "traditional martial art" carries to some here. But here goes...

Let's say 100 years from now if Gracie Jiu-jitsu is still around (or the earth for that matter) would it then be classified as a "Traditional Martial Art?"

It can't just be how old a martial art is that determines its label as a TMA. Muay Thai is older than TKD, but it's not really thought of as a TMA. So the question is, what exactly makes a martial art traditional.

I have my own ideas which I'll post once I get back from teaching some 1st and 2nd graders TMA for 90 minutes. But I'm interested in hearing everyone else's thoughts.

I don't think the stigma is about traditional rather 'dead' training with accompanying delusions of efficiency based on the 'authority' of it being traditional. 'Traditional' being synonymous with 'well it wouldn't have lasted this long if it didn't work' and 'in the old days people killed with this style' type thinking.

This site has pretty much got it right already IMO, there is the CMA forum the JMA and KMA etc and that kinda works for me. People within their respective arts can get in each others faces about 'lineage' and all that as they wish. The important distinctions round here is how you train in your art considering the claims you make for it. Maybe the forum headings could change to something like Omega suggested with one for 'Classical Fighting Arts' or maybe 'Culturally Based Martial Arts' or something..instead of TMA?

**Rock Ape** · Posted On: 1/15/2013 1:51pm

Originally Posted by Holy Moment

Here, I'll spell it out for everybody and tell you which arts are traditional and which arts are MMA (Full-contact or Alive would be a better name, but I'll go with MMA because that's what self-proclaimed traditional martial artists would call them). I think this is the only way we can really go about things, and when we reach a point of contention the discussion can progress from there.

-Traditional
Aikido
Ninjutsu
Most styles of karate
Most styles of kung-fu
Taekwondo
Hapkido (And related Korean styles)
Silat
Japanese Jiu-Jitsu

-MMA
Boxing
Judo (Used to be traditional until MMA took off. Now it's been disavowed by traditionalists because it's a grappling art)
Muay Thai
BJJ
Kickboxing
Wrestling
SAMBO
Kyokushin and off-shoots (Except those who consider themselves traditional)
Savate
Sanda

Along with TMA and MMA, the other classifications for martial arts are Str33t and Weapons. Str33t martial arts are defined by the disapproval of sport and traditional methods, although there's some crossover between traditional and Str33t mentalities (Mainly, the disapproval of sport methods).

-Str33t
Krav Maga
Systema
San Soo
SCARS

-Weapons
Fencing
Kendo
Eskrima/Kali
Renaissance fencing

Explain for me how a Japanese MA which was created AFTER the end of the warring classes were outlawed by their own Government and, within a long term period of peace; can those systems be considered "traditional" when they are very much "modern" in terms of age.

**CrackFox** · Posted On: 1/15/2013 1:53pm

Originally Posted by Rock Ape

Explain for me how a Japanese MA which was created AFTER the end of the warring classes were outlawed by their own Government and, within a long term period of peace; can those systems be considered "traditional" when they are very much "modern" in terms of age.

Explain how a modern martial art cannot be traditional.

**Holy Moment** · Posted On: 1/15/2013 4:24pm

Explain for me how a Japanese MA which was created AFTER the end of the warring classes were outlawed by their own Government and, within a long term period of peace; can those systems be considered "traditional" when they are very much "modern" in terms of age.

That's totally irrelevant. The "traditional" label is based solely on the misperceptions of the people who practice the art, not the reality of how young the art actually is.