What exactly qualifies as a Traditional Martial Art?

[CrackFox]

Traditional martial arts are ones where they place a emphasis on ritual and tradition. We do things this way because that's the way we've always done them, the old masters created something perfect and we must try and emulate them. Non traditional care more about doing things that just work. Styles adapt, and a dedicated student should be perfectly capable of eventually exceeding his teacher (who exceeded his teacher, etc.)

Of course it's a sliding scale, with some styles being more traditional than others, and schools within a style also varying in their level of tradition.

[jnp]

TMA is a misnomer though—it basically is a stand-in for "the arts that routinely lost in embarrassing ways in the UFC due to fanciful training, strategies, and overestimations of their own efficacy."

This is an excellent definition of what TMA meant to most members here on Bullshido for many years. A more generalized one would be TMA equals martial arts that do not train in an alive manner.

Yes I realize that is not a wholly accurate definition. It is one that most members here ascribed to however.

IMO, the major difference lies in the fact that TMAs are practiced for the purpose of maintaining a cultural heritage, whereas non-TMA is far more fluid with regards to evolution.

This is a good general definition in my opinion.

[Rock Ape]

Traditional martial arts are ones where they place a emphasis on ritual and tradition. We do things this way because that's the way we've always done them, the old masters created something perfect and we must try and emulate them.

Again, that's a misconception and not true or accurate description of many old-school systems.

What you always must bear in mind when discussing the merits or historical nature of koryu is they they are based today on what physically worked then, in the era in which they were relevant and developed for. Today, this is seen as natural selection at its best.

Many of the once thousands of bujutsu-ryu ha are now extinct, most of them because the headmasters and retainers of those systems were eventually killed by better headmasters and retainers of other (and often better) schools. That's the way it worked then through roughly 300 years of continuous internal warfare.

This translates today in maintaining those traditions as "living history" not because someone simply says "this is how it must be done" but because that is how it was successfully proven in battle over the course of a very long period of time. Those systems themselves underwent a great deal of development and evolution and it was only during comparative periods of peace that such development slowed. Within those periods and especially after the Meiji Restoration, a greater emphasis was placed on personal development rather than the sole intention of attrition.

Dave

[doofaloofa]

Yes I realize that is not a wholly accurate definition. It is one that most members here ascribed to however.

What ever the definition there will always be some art that bucks the trend

JFK
You can please all of the people some of the time...

I think the general definition that is in force here is a workable one

[Ming Loyalist]

I have never farmed rice, but I imagine it involves an unholy amount of body-weight squats. Or do you bend over at the waist so you keep your butt dry?

when i was 18 i went and lived on a self sufficient organic farm in rural japan for 6 weeks. on rainy days we worked the rice paddies because "you're going to get wet anyway, might as well be in a rice paddy."

my job was weeding, and the way i did it (and i'm not sure i was doing it right, mind you) was to bend at the waist grab a weed, slide my hand along the weed under water and into the mud until i could pull it out by the root, and then collect it in a bag and move on to the next. no squats, and an aching back.

see, i had been stupid enough to read up on the dangers facing me on a japanese farm, so i had read about these weird parasites that attacked through the soles of your feet, worked their way up your body, and ate your brain. i was so freaked out that i bought tabi to wear in the rice paddy (everyone else went barefoot and told me i was an idiot.) anyway i sure as hell wasn't going to dip my *butthole* into that water, that's for sure.

come to think of it. the water came up to my mid thighs or a little higher, so squatting might have been really unpleasant. my way at least my head stayed out of the water.

[Omega Supreme]

This is an excellent definition of what TMA meant to most members here on Bullshido for many years. A more generalized one would be TMA equals martial arts that do not train in an alive manner.

Yes I realize that is not a wholly accurate definition. It is one that most members here ascribed to however.


This is a good general definition in my opinion.

****, so my kung fu is not tma. I'm good with that.

[Psycho Dad]

Yeah, just did a thread similar to this right before the holidays. Basically I was saying that we should rename Traditional Martial Arts to something more like "Classical Training Martial Arts".

What about SMA? As in Static Martial Arts.

[Holy Moment]

The way I've always thought about it is traditional martial arts are any styles you would think of before you knew about MMA, disincluding sport styles. It always seemed to be a distinction based on self-identification and media representation. A traditional martial art is almost always Asian, typically requires students to wear a gi, belt, sash, robe, and/or ninja mask, and usually has a curriculum based on static drills, forms, and flashy techniques.

To put it another way, in the past if you told someone you were going to take up a martial art, they would picture you in a gi bowing to the Korean flag while yelling KIAI and getting crane kicked in the head. Nowadays if you say you're taking up an MA, they might think of that, but could also picture you rolling around with a bunch of other sweaty men while simultaneously shooting steroids and getting a tribal tattoo on your face.

[ermghoti]

I'm starting to think the entire term is useless. The more you try to stick a specific definition on it, the more the definition fails to apply to anything, or, alternately, encompasses everything. Alive/non-alive is a clear distinction, whereas traditional and... well, what? Contemporary? Practical? Competitive? There is no effective antonym.

[Omega Supreme]

Kyokushin kai is not TMA