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  1. ChuckWepner is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2013 2:03pm


     

    -1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    I hear you, even though I didn't read a word.

    Post less Chuck, maybe you won't lose the reader so easily. Nobody wants to read walls of text no matter how eloquent the language or sound the reasoning. Clear and concise is how my old technical writing adviser put it.

    Clear and concise, Chuck. Here we call it "Lurk more, post less".
    Ah, you didn't read it, but yet you know the gist. And from a guy with 5700 + posts who often holds the most frequent poster award. Now that Matt doesn't post hypocritically anymore ...

    Brevity is the soul of wit. -- Shakespeare
    Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel -- Samuel Johnson
    "tl;dr" is the first refuge of the witless -- ChuckWepner
    Last edited by ChuckWepner; 2/09/2013 2:07pm at .
  2. ermghoti is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/09/2013 2:48pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ+Sanda

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vieux Normand View Post
    How does one accomplish a funeral march in 5/4 time?
    Hang around New Orleans a bit, you'll see.
    Quote Originally Posted by strikistanian View Post
    DROP SEIONAGI ************! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil
    Why is it so goddamn hard to find a video of it? I've seen videos I'm pretty sure are alien spacecraft. But still no good Krav.
  3. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2013 3:16pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 血鷲

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ermghoti View Post
    Hang around New Orleans a bit, you'll see.
    Each nawlins resident only has one good leg? 5/4 time'd work for that.
  4. W. Rabbit is offline
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    heaven sent and hell bent but weapons clenched and well kept

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2013 6:02pm

    supporting member
     Style: 

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckWepner View Post
    tl;dr and quite possibly some snarky quotations
    Stop that. Most of my 5700 posts are pathetic. I'm sure you'll end up with your own percentage. You're well on your way.

    OH **** and now we've come to quote-fu.

    En garde then, I will counter your Sam Johnson with my own Sam Johnson, in a greater font!

    'Classical quotation is the parole of literary men all over the world' - Samuel Johnson
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 2/09/2013 6:40pm at .
  5. W. Rabbit is offline
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    heaven sent and hell bent but weapons clenched and well kept

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2013 6:03pm

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    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquil Suit View Post
    Lazy
    XOXOXO
    It's Saturday.
  6. Aikironin21 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2013 11:54pm


     Style: Aikido, Kajukembo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Re: Wing Chun and Aikido

    With Aikido, let's put aside the, "it sucks" for a brief second, and somehow pretend everyone agreed it was effective. Now, what in Aikido, would you use?
    The throws could be take downs, but once down, how do you control? It would have to come to some type of wrist lock right? Unless once down the Aikidoka shifted to something else, some sort of wrist or arm lock immobilization would be way to go, and getting a tap out from a mere immobilization isn't going to happen. The ref will break it up and you would start over.
    You could possibly generate enough pain with a wrist lock, but unlikely in that type of competition and remember your targets are reinforced with tape and covered with gloves.
    Aikido is a good starting point for self defense for law enforcement if you start early enough to have a good base in it before you hit the academy. You can play catch up, but you better know learn something for the interim.
    Last edited by Aikironin21; 2/11/2013 12:00am at .
  7. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/11/2013 10:08am

    Join us... or die
     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Aikironin21 View Post
    With Aikido, let's put aside the, "it sucks" for a brief second, and somehow pretend everyone agreed it was effective. Now, what in Aikido, would you use?
    The throws could be take downs, but once down, how do you control? It would have to come to some type of wrist lock right? Unless once down the Aikidoka shifted to something else, some sort of wrist or arm lock immobilization would be way to go, and getting a tap out from a mere immobilization isn't going to happen. The ref will break it up and you would start over.
    You could possibly generate enough pain with a wrist lock, but unlikely in that type of competition and remember your targets are reinforced with tape and covered with gloves.
    Aikido is a good starting point for self defense for law enforcement if you start early enough to have a good base in it before you hit the academy. You can play catch up, but you better know learn something for the interim.
    Aikido is not a good starting point for LEOs. It is ok to throw some wrist lock stuff in there for transport techniques, and those lead to takedowns, which lead to cuffing. But those a few and far between. Matter of fact, you only really need the one wrist lock. And it works well, until the person being held doesn't want to be held any more.

    A good starting point for LEO is Boxing. If it were for me to design a program it would be boxing to start, FMA knife work after that, Judo/Sambo, and then at the very end you show that bent wrist escort technique which follows to a bent wrist takedown with cuffing techniques.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
  8. Aikironin21 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2013 3:04pm


     Style: Aikido, Kajukembo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Re: Wing Chun and Aikido

    The reason Aikido is a good starting point for LEOs, is escalation of force. In the 24hr news cycle and video around every corner, starting out your use of force continuum at boxing, could quickly find you unemployed.
    problem is, unless you start learning Aikido in your teens, by the time you hit the academy you are behind the bus. By the time you would be truly proficient, you would have been on the streets for a few years.
  9. CoffeeFan is offline
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    Certified Personal Trainer and Drinker of Coffee

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2013 3:20pm

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO/BJJ/Judo and others

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Aikironin21 View Post
    With Aikido, let's put aside the, "it sucks" for a brief second, and somehow pretend everyone agreed it was effective. Now, what in Aikido, would you use?
    The throws could be take downs, but once down, how do you control?
    So this would be BizzaroBullshido?

    How about I stick to more high percentage throws I know will work as opposed to techniques that only work on compliant partners.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aikironin21 View Post
    The reason Aikido is a good starting point for LEOs, is escalation of force. In the 24hr news cycle and video around every corner, starting out your use of force continuum at boxing, could quickly find you unemployed.
    problem is, unless you start learning Aikido in your teens, by the time you hit the academy you are behind the bus. By the time you would be truly proficient, you would have been on the streets for a few years.
    Gotta disagree. If an art takes forever to learn and actually utilize to any extent,, it's not an efficient art. When I started taking SAMBO, I saw definite improvement in about 6 months time. I'm sure if I took boxing exclusively, I would have similar results.

    What part of California you in? I would be down to have a friendly free roll session and compare the effectiveness of Aikido vs SAMBO/BJJ/Judo
  10. Aikironin21 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2013 4:27pm


     Style: Aikido, Kajukembo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Re: Wing Chun and Aikido

    That's why I said if you started learning in your teens. Aikido isn't efficient to learn in the span of an academy cycle. The OP sited Aikido's effectiveness for self defense. For LEOs, Aikido style of non aggressive defense would be a good starting point for use of force continuum. More and more you encounter those grey areas where you have someone who isn't being aggressive yet not compliant. What are your options at that point? Some kind of come along move, or a one sided boxing match?
    I work for a very aggressive department when it comes to use of force. Our standard is minimal amount of force necessary to achieve... When you have your department basically gunning for you, it affects your decision making and it shouldn't. From that viewpoint, I'm saying to start out non aggressive and escalate as the situation and the individual dictate. I'm not saying Aikido is the only style capable of this, and I'm not actually advocating it because of how much time you need to be proficient. A week of use of force or arrest and control classes isn't even close to enough to be able to learn this.
    The op was about why Aikido isn't used in competition like MMA. I said put aside the effectiveness debate and why would train for mostly wrist locks and immobilization that won't end in a submission especially when wrists are reinforced with tape and gloves. That type of philosophy is better suited for come along techniques and a starting point for law enforcement and the use of force continuum.
    It's not though, cause in order to become proficient you would have to start learning way before the academy. Are there more efficient ways of learning the same thing? I'm sure there have to be. I train In Aikido cause I like it. I have used what I have learned a number of times in the line of duty, with success, and faced no adverse action for my efforts. Most of the time, these were incidences where someone was not compliant with orders, but not at that point where they were actively fighting either, or fighting someone else and we were separating them.

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