For The Devil

**mike321** · Posted On: 12/29/2012 5:41pm

Originally Posted by Cullion

Your deficit is currently bigger than your defence budget. You could completely disband the whole military and still be sliding deeper into debt on the basis of unfunded entitlements. You all realise this, yes ? What next?

Actuarial reality for social security. This will mean later retirement ages, but will also increase spending for permanent disability claims (some jobs just can't work later in years even with longer life expectancies)

Medicare, no answer, we may have bitten off more than we can chew.

I would like to see tariffs come back but don't know how to accomplish this without hurting global economy.

**mike321** · Posted On: 12/29/2012 5:49pm

We will also need to grow our way out if this. Also very tough, new members of congress will be unable to "do" anything. Also many groups protest lack of government growth as cuts.

**hungryjoe** · Posted On: 12/29/2012 10:09pm

Time to take a swan dive off the so called 'fiscal cliff'. Won't happen though as the can will just be kicked a little further down the road.

Problem is, as Mike says, too many call reduced spending a 'cut'. While the rest of us pay more/earn less, the entitled will carry on as before.

I don't consider social security / medicare as entitlements except in those case where lazy bastards/bitches have acquired it through circumstances that should have been temporary. Pushing back the age to full benefits, again, is a probability.

Welfare? We have the richest poor people in the world. It pays more for a single mother to make less income and collect a myriad to entitlements. There should be a line drawn somewhere in between.

Politicians - they'll be OK any way about it. Parasites all.

but I'm not angry

**goodlun** · Posted On: 12/30/2012 3:43am

Entitlement is an accounting term that refers to "fixed payments that must be honored". This is what they mean by Entitlement spending. Not what people feel entitled to.
IE.
Someone who has paid into medicare, Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, ect. Are entitled to use of those programs as part of paying into them. These programs should be protected as such.
"Welfare" programs below
cash assistance (TANF), the child support program, child care, energy or utility assistance, food assistance, medical assistance, and vocational rehabilitation services.

Are not entitlements and are not what is being talked about when they talk about when talking about entitlements.

**Hedgehogey** · Posted On: 12/30/2012 6:17am

Originally Posted by mike321

What countries have we invaded since Vietnam? If I recall, Panama, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Grenada. Of these which are you objecting to and why?

El Salvador, Nicaragua, Somalia, Iran (attacking two Iranian oil platforms, shooting down Iran Airlines 655), Honduras, Zaire (logistical support), Haiti.

This does <i>not</i> count countries where the USA "only" bombed (such as Bosnia, Pakistan) or where US "advisors" (special forces) assisted the locals in suppressing dissent (Turkey, Nigeria) or where the CIA backed coups (such as Chile) or the siege of Cuba that has been going on since Castro marched into Havana or the sending of billions of dollars to a xenocidal crazy miniature of itself (Israel).

**Cullion** · Posted On: 12/30/2012 8:02am

Originally Posted by goodlun

Someone who has paid into medicare, Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, ect. Are entitled to use of those programs as part of paying into them. These programs should be protected as such.

It's going to be a moot point as time goes on, because the numbers don't add up. You just won't be able to fund these commitments in the form people who started paying into them a generation ago expected.

**hungryjoe** · Posted On: 12/30/2012 11:09am

Originally Posted by goodlun

Entitlement is an accounting term that refers to "fixed payments that must be honored". This is what they mean by Entitlement spending. Not what people feel entitled to.
IE.
Someone who has paid into medicare, Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, ect. Are entitled to use of those programs as part of paying into them. These programs should be protected as such.
"Welfare" programs below
cash assistance (TANF), the child support program, child care, energy or utility assistance, food assistance, medical assistance, and vocational rehabilitation services.

Are not entitlements and are not what is being talked about when they talk about when talking about entitlements.

Link to one year of SSI fraud.
http://oig.ssa.gov/sites/default/fil...LL%20FINAL.pdf

Now, this is just a drop in the bucket. A long read, but page 32 is by state although some are not listed at all. Examples -

California - 544 allegations receive of which 195 were confirmed as fraud. Population 37,254,000.

New York 67 allegations of which 36 were confirmed? Really? Population 19,378,000.

Oklahoma with a population of 3,751,000 had 132 allegations of which 58 were determined to be fraudulent.

Texas only 311 / 179 with a population of 25,146,000.

Washington 159 / 151 with 8,001,000. Anomaly with that high a conviction rate?

--------------

Okay. Those above fall under the official term of 'entitlement'. Fact is, there are many here in the US that feel entitled period. See your list above for 'programs' wherein any reduction in spending for these programs will be deemed a 'cut'.

Two years of unemployment benefits? Really? That's some bullshit there no matter where you live.

Growth in government is out of control.

TL;DNR version

We can't afford this **** anymore.

....break from rant.....

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 12/30/2012 11:48am

Originally Posted by hungryjoe

Two years of unemployment benefits? Really? That's some bullshit there no matter where you live.

Unemployment benefit limited to two years? In the UK there is no limit.

Don't know if this will work in the US, but it's instructive of how some people abuse the benefits system.

A radio call in show to discuss the suggestion of an introduction of a version of the EBT to the UK.

http://order-order.com/2012/12/30/on...up-at-800-a-m/

Claiming unemployment benefits for 7 years, within 30 seconds he casually admits to benefit fraud by working and not declaring it for cash in hand and then goes on to say he turned down a job, because he couldn't be bothered to get up at 8 am.

**mike321** · Posted On: 12/30/2012 12:38pm

Originally Posted by Hedgehogey

El Salvador, Nicaragua, Somalia, Iran (attacking two Iranian oil platforms, shooting down Iran Airlines 655), Honduras, Zaire (logistical support), Haiti.

This does <i>not</i> count countries where the USA "only" bombed (such as Bosnia, Pakistan) or where US "advisors" (special forces) assisted the locals in suppressing dissent (Turkey, Nigeria) or where the CIA backed coups (such as Chile) or the siege of Cuba that has been going on since Castro marched into Havana or the sending of billions of dollars to a xenocidal crazy miniature of itself (Israel).

You forgot the continued occupation of Germany, Korea, and Japan. As well as the occupation of Native American lands, Hawaii, and Puerto Rico. I just wanted to know which invasion (using a stricter definition) he was concerned about as being unjustified. If he wants to use your definition fine.

**hungryjoe** · Posted On: 12/30/2012 12:40pm

Originally Posted by judoka_uk

Unemployment benefit limited to two years? In the UK there is no limit.

Don't know if this will work in the US, but it's instructive of how some people abuse the benefits system.

A radio call in show to discuss the suggestion of an introduction of a version of the EBT to the UK.

http://order-order.com/2012/12/30/on...up-at-800-a-m/

Claiming unemployment benefits for 7 years, within 30 seconds he casually admits to benefit fraud by working and not declaring it for cash in hand and then goes on to say he turned down a job, because he couldn't be bothered to get up at 8 am.

I haven't checked your link, but it's well known even over here how easy it is to play the system in the UK.

Unemployment compensation in the US used to be a state 26 week max. The feds propped it up to two years. Now Obama is calling for another two year extension.

http://jobsearch.about.com/od/extend...ment-tiers.htm

The unemployment extension legislation passed by Congress in February 2012 changed the way the tiers of Emergency Unemployment Compensation (EUC) are structured. These tiers are in effect for 2012. There are currently no extended benefits in place for 2013.

The tiers of unemployment from same link -

Emergency Unemployment Compensation (EUC) Tiers Through May 2012

Tier 1: 20 weeks
Tier 2: 14 weeks
Tier 3: 13 weeks if the state unemployment rate is 6% or higher
Tier 4: 6 weeks if the state unemployment rate is 8.5% or higher unless state doesn't have EB, then 16 weeks

Emergency Unemployment Compensation (EUC) Tiers June - August 2012

Tier 1: 20 weeks
Tier 2: 14 weeks if the state unemployment rate is 6% or higher
Tier 3: 13 weeks if the state unemployment rate is 7% or higher
Tier 4: 6 weeks if the state unemployment rate is 9% or higher

Emergency Unemployment Compensation (EUC) Tiers September - December 2012

Tier 1: 14 weeks
Tier 2: 14 weeks if the state unemployment rate is 6% or higher
Tier 3: 9 weeks if the state unemployment rate is 7% or higher
Tier 4: 10 weeks if the state unemployment rate is 9% or higher

Maximum Number of Weeks of Unemployment

With the changes, the maximum weeks of available unemployment benefits depending upon location are:

99 Weeks: March - May
79 Weeks: June - August
73 Weeks: September - December