221249 Bullies, 4353 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 41 to 50 of 102
Page 5 of 11 FirstFirst 12345 6789 ... LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Cullion is offline
    Cullion's Avatar

    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Oxford, UK
    Posts
    6,543

    Posted On:
    12/28/2012 11:26am

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by adskibullus View Post
    How do you define productive?
    Does this person do something useful? Does this person seem to take much more time to do their job than somebody would to do a similar job in the private sector because of archaic working practices and union-imposed regulations ?

    The public sector provides a service it cannot be run on or be judged by its profits or losses. You can't put a price on the services the public sector provides.
    Yes I can, and in most cases it's really easy because there are private sector equivalents I can compare them to. In some cases I can just look at the wage bill for a function and think 'do I actually want to pay somebody to do that at all ?'
    In some of those cases the answer is no.

    How do we trim the fat from the public sector without harming front line services?
    Radically change the pension entitlements of new employees to come into line with the private sector.

    Re-read the Guardian jobs page. Every time you come across a job that doesn't really sound very essential, then I propose we just don't have one at all.

    Are we suggesting privatisation of the public sector?
    In a few cases. In other cases I'm suggesting that the public sector is doing things we don't need it to do at all (e.g. Guardian jobs pages), or that in some cases the staff are not giving as good value for money as private sector staff doing similar jobs (throwing more sickies, overly generous pension schemes etc..).

    Would you feel comfortable have a doctor basing your treatment on cost of an operation etc?
    The NHS already does that.
    !!RENT SPACE HERE FOR 10 VBUCKS PER LINE PER MONTH!!

    !! PM ME FOR SPEEDY SERVICE !!

    Sponsored by our first customer: Repulsive Monkey



    I <3 Sirc.
  2. adskibullus is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Britannia
    Posts
    383

    Posted On:
    12/28/2012 11:47am


     Style: Lifting heavy stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have no idea what half of the jobs in the guardian actually mean so I've got no way of distinguishing if there worthy or not. Also they all advertise under agencies so I can't see weather there private or public sector.

    It does piss me off when I see that teachers are striking over the fact that they haven't had a pay rise in 3 years when people in my industry have had a 30% pay cut our wages are what they were 10 years ago! Although you could argue that the recessions wasn't cause buy publuc sector workers it was rotten bankers so why should they pay for others mistakes?
  3. judoka_uk is offline
    judoka_uk's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    England
    Posts
    4,678

    Posted On:
    12/28/2012 11:55am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by adskibullus View Post
    Although legally reducing the tax you pay is legal it's morally wrong. Of course the government need to cut the budget deficit but shouldn't they also be looking at ways of plugging these loop holes so that the system is more fair. Why cut public sector jobs when the private sector is struggling, this just adds to more unemployment and more people on JSA.
    Unfortunately we're looking at a situation where ideology becomes irrelevant, because the maths renders arguments about morality of tax avoidance null and void.



    We simply cannot afford to pay for all the things government does and even if we expropriate all the assets and wealth from 'the rich' it still wouldn't plug the hole.

    The Coalition's cuts are small and slow, they actually plan to reducing public sector borrowing, note just borrowing not debt, slower than Labour's Alistair Darling planned to do before they lost the election.



    Whichever party is in power is going to have to radically start scaling back the amount government spends, because if they don't in 10-15 years we'll be in a worse shape than Greece. Then the politicians will have to do things people really aren't going to like such as completely privatising the NHS, tolls on the whole road network, dragging people on 20k a year into the 40% tax bracket etc... etc...

    It's going to get really nasty and it's not going to be avoided by arguments about morality or fairness, because maths isn't moral and it isn't fair it's just the maths.
  4. mike321 is online now

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,430

    Posted On:
    12/28/2012 12:48pm


     Style: kenpo, Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    For The Devil

    Quote Originally Posted by adskibullus View Post
    I have no idea what half of the jobs in the guardian actually mean so I've got no way of distinguishing if there worthy or not. Also they all advertise under agencies so I can't see weather there private or public sector.

    It does piss me off when I see that teachers are striking over the fact that they haven't had a pay rise in 3 years when people in my industry have had a 30% pay cut our wages are what they were 10 years ago! Although you could argue that the recessions wasn't cause buy publuc sector workers it was rotten bankers so why should they pay for others mistakes?
    Your anger is misplaced. You should be upset with whatever is causing you to not have bargaining power to fight for your wages. I am not sure what industry you are in but in many cases public policy is preventing workers getting raises that they would normally get in a free market.
  5. adskibullus is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Britannia
    Posts
    383

    Posted On:
    12/28/2012 1:00pm


     Style: Lifting heavy stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by mike321 View Post
    Your anger is misplaced. You should be upset with whatever is causing you to not have bargaining power to fight for your wages. I am not sure what industry you are in but in many cases public policy is preventing workers getting raises that they would normally get in a free market.
    Construction industry, we have no decent unions so nobody's a member, the vast majority of us are self employed so we can be sacked on the spot and can't do anything about it if we complain about it, plus there's a small army if Eastern Europeans who will work for less money and take our jobs when we do complain.
  6. mike321 is online now

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,430

    Posted On:
    12/28/2012 1:27pm


     Style: kenpo, Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    For The Devil

    I feel where you are coming from. Public policy is not your friend it seems.
  7. legomepanda is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Illinois. Yay.
    Posts
    440

    Posted On:
    12/28/2012 3:32pm


     Style: grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion View Post
    That's absurd. The government takes money by force and wastes massive amounts of it on simple incompetence and handing it out to special interest groups with good political contacts. Of course it isn't immoral to avoid being leeched on by such a system.

    That's a hell of an arguement. I don't disagree, but when you say that people should avoid taxes because our government is incompetent and wastes it, it is very close to waging economic warfare on the US. Or at least saying that we should, and are morally just in doing so.
  8. Cullion is offline
    Cullion's Avatar

    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Oxford, UK
    Posts
    6,543

    Posted On:
    12/28/2012 3:51pm

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by legomepanda View Post
    That's a hell of an arguement. I don't disagree, but when you say that people should avoid taxes because our government is incompetent and wastes it, it is very close to waging economic warfare on the US. Or at least saying that we should, and are morally just in doing so.
    It's not economic warfare to pay the minimum tax you are legally required to.
    !!RENT SPACE HERE FOR 10 VBUCKS PER LINE PER MONTH!!

    !! PM ME FOR SPEEDY SERVICE !!

    Sponsored by our first customer: Repulsive Monkey



    I <3 Sirc.
  9. legomepanda is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Illinois. Yay.
    Posts
    440

    Posted On:
    12/28/2012 5:08pm


     Style: grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fair enough. But what you said is that we should avoid paying taxes, legally, because our governments fucked up. That's different than "you should avoid taxes because tax evasions legal"
  10. Cullion is offline
    Cullion's Avatar

    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Oxford, UK
    Posts
    6,543

    Posted On:
    12/28/2012 5:14pm

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by legomepanda View Post
    Fair enough. But what you said is that we should avoid paying taxes, legally, because our governments fucked up. That's different than "you should avoid taxes because tax evasions legal"
    Yes, I think we should.
    !!RENT SPACE HERE FOR 10 VBUCKS PER LINE PER MONTH!!

    !! PM ME FOR SPEEDY SERVICE !!

    Sponsored by our first customer: Repulsive Monkey



    I <3 Sirc.
Page 5 of 11 FirstFirst 12345 6789 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.