For The Devil

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 1/04/2013 12:48pm

Originally Posted by mike321

Like anything else they can be corrupted and back an industry into a corner or be ineffectual and not benefit their members.

Example, Hostess.

Yes, there was more going on, but in a bad economy it makes you wonder wtf they were thinking.

**patfromlogan** · Posted On: 1/04/2013 1:44pm

Hostess?

**mike321** · Posted On: 1/04/2013 2:18pm

Originally Posted by -TANK-

Name one decent union, AND tell us the pay structure of the union leaders. Just one, and pay.

The UPS union seemed to work out well for them over time. I don't have info on the pay of their leaders. The hostess one is a strange one. The bakers union may have been acting in the best interest by demolishing that company. People still buy bread and bakers may have been better off with business shifting to other companies and possible new jobs. They probably hurt non bakers but the union is supposed to represent their guys. Anecdotal evidence alert, union members I know who are retired seem to do better than non union.

**-TANK-** · Posted On: 1/08/2013 11:53pm

Originally Posted by It is Fake

Example, Hostess.

Yes, there was more going on, but in a bad economy it makes you wonder wtf they were thinking.

and nobody looks out for the investors who attempted to save the company with I think about 20 million. They lost it all, not debt holders either, money that was invested, risked, and lost.

Unions need a new face, a new plan and need to back off a bit.

**mike321** · Posted On: 1/09/2013 12:05am

Originally Posted by -TANK-

and nobody looks out for the investors who attempted to save the company with I think about 20 million. They lost it all, not debt holders either, money that was invested, risked, and lost.

Unions need a new face, a new plan and need to back off a bit.

investors with 20 million on the line put 3 million (roughly) for upper management. That's a lot of risk in itself. Plus unions are not responsible for investors any more than investors are responsible for unions. This is why they negotiate.

**-TANK-** · Posted On: 1/09/2013 9:06am

Originally Posted by mike321

investors with 20 million on the line put 3 million (roughly) for upper management. That's a lot of risk in itself. Plus unions are not responsible for investors any more than investors are responsible for unions. This is why they negotiate.

Negotiate? Union telling management how to run the company? Corporate idiots running the company into the debt side of the balance sheet? Union makes concessions, Corporate decides to bring in investors, Sheesh, is that a negotiation? Seems more like a dysfunctional couple neither one listening to what the other says, and the head of household says too bad so sad, with intent on tearing it up anyway.

My point was that the crys and shouts for the poor employees were loudest, nobody crys or moans for the investors, but damn sure they are the devil.

**mike321** · Posted On: 1/09/2013 4:03pm

Did hostess bakers ask for more than money? My understanding was that it was a straight compensation (and benefits) fight. Is there more to the story. I think it is foolish to try and run the company.

**BoonDog** · Posted On: 1/09/2013 6:00pm

Originally Posted by mike321

Did hostess bakers ask for more than money? My understanding was that it was a straight compensation (and benefits) fight. Is there more to the story. I think it is foolish to try and run the company.

It wasn't just the bakers that they needed to negotiate with. There were separate unions for the delivery of the baked goods.

**-TANK-** · Posted On: 1/09/2013 7:42pm

Originally Posted by BoonDog

It wasn't just the bakers that they needed to negotiate with. There were separate unions for the delivery of the baked goods.

Boodgod, exactly right.
Nobody was innocent here, and much maligning. Terrible to note that in the end, 18500 are unemployed, that is the part I dont get. Most companies I work with LOVE their employees. They care more about the employees than the employees do. Not here.

**mike321** · Posted On: 1/09/2013 8:21pm

Originally Posted by -TANK-

Boodgod, exactly right.
Nobody was innocent here, and much maligning. Terrible to note that in the end, 18500 are unemployed, that is the part I dont get. Most companies I work with LOVE their employees. They care more about the employees than the employees do. Not here.

What kind of companies do you work with? Companies caring more abut their employees than their employees. Maybe they think they do or they care in a paternalistic "we know best" way. At the end of the day it is a negotiation.