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  1. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/28/2012 4:06pm

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     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    On techniques to break grips without using two hands there are a number of resources out there such as Pedro's Grip like a World Champion and the Pedro/Ferguson DVD series that will have some solutions.

    Two of the key elements as I see it are that getting to the grip becomes even more important than before and that with that people are going to be looking to bait the grip and then drop.

    People are going to have to learn to use body movement and the gi to make up for only being able to use one hand, rolling the shoulder and moving the gi away from the grip in a way that enhances your grip break.

    =============

    Quote Originally Posted by Naszir View Post
    My email to the French NGB has yet to be answered as I only have a few contacts there. Perhaps you could reach out to them and inquire why they were so hasty to adopt them.
    Be impressed if you get a response, assuming you e-mailed in English?

    I can take a punt that as the Paris comp is the first event of the trial and it's a really important event for their national Judo squad that they want to be ahead of the curve for the new rules.

    Why have they then applied it all the way down to a junior event where none of them will fight at Paris? Probably for the same reason US NGBs were giving Hansoku makes to six year olds when the leg grab rules were trialled. Because NGBs seem to be staffed with retards when it comes to proportionate introduction of new rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naszir View Post
    As for continuing to do what we normally do, we want to train the way we compete which is a bit of a sticky wicket for guys like blackmonk and myself as we also compete in SAMBO, FIAS is unphased by the IJF as judo isn't their sport and they pretty much allow any grip or grip break. However, there are far more judo tournaments in our country than SAMBO, including a national qualifier in two months. By training strictly according to the judo ruleset with the upcoming changes included, we hope to not get disqualified due to muscle memory.
    Well, yes that's somewhat of a dilemma. I'd still urge on the side of normalcy though, because we simply don't know what this 'no two handed grip break rule' is actually going to look like.

    I think that's the most sensible thing to do, after Paris in Feb I think we'll have some clarity on what shape the new trial rules will take.

    The BJA is actually not introducing any of the new rules during the trial period and will carry on as if nothing had happened. Do you know if the US organisations are going to implement any of the trial rules?
  2. Ming Loyalist is offline
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    solves problems with violence

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    Posted On:
    12/28/2012 4:17pm

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     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Do you know if the US organisations are going to implement any of the trial rules?
    From an email I got from USA Judo:

    USA Judo Position Statement on IJF Rule Changes

    USA Judo wants all judo athletes, coaches, referees, administrators and parents to have clear and complete information on rule changes recently released by the International Judo Federation on its website and subsequently circulated around the world.

    To clarify:

    The final rule changes will be officially announced by USA Judo on all of our communication platforms as soon as possible.
    Everyone should note that any and all rule changes will go into effect after the IJF Grand Slam Paris, Feb. 10 and 11.

    On January 25th there will be a meeting in Mexico City with the IJF where USA Judo will have representation. After that meeting, we expect to have full understanding of the spirit and application of these rule changes. We will announce our findings as soon as possible.

    Until then, we advise that you take anything you read in regards to the new rules with a grain of salt. We will, just as we did three years ago when other rule changes were established, let all of you know in writing what will apply, when and why.

    We hope this helps all of those who may be overwhelmed with 'unofficial' emails and comments regarding this matter. It is one of our goals to keep you fully informed about important changes affecting our great sport.

    Lance Nading, President, USA Judo Board of Directors
    Jose H. Rodriguez, CEO, USA Judo
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
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  3. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    12/28/2012 6:37pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    With all due respect to the American refereeing fraternity, I'm not sure that their representatives pronouncements on correct interpretations of IJF rules are entirely reliable.

    Though given the IJF's appalling incompetence in communicating it's latest dictats to the ordinary Judoka on the mat it's hard to know whose interpretations are accurate.
    Very true. I doubt the IJF even knows exactly how it will turn out in the end. These things almost always go through stages of interpretation in my experience.

    I think the one judoka_UK describes would be legal, but who knows. I saw a video of Iliadis doing one that looked pretty good. But as strong as he is who knows if mere mortals can pull it off (argh).

    This may well force people to start looking at ways to throw around grips instead of constantly cutting and regripping. There are several methods but they require damned good coordination and ability to shift position on the fly to keep control of uke.

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  4. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/28/2012 6:41pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmonk View Post
    We were just talking about this earlier in class. You also can't grip with one hand and defend grips with the other, as that will be called passivity.

    If your opponent has a respectable grip, I honestly don't know any high-percentage techniques to counter that. I was doing this with some degree of success, though:

    1. uke gets a lapel grip
    2. I get a counter lapel grip to the inside of theirs
    3. Flare my elbow out, thus flaring theirs out and compromising the alignment of their wrist structure
    4. Pull my torso back and push out against their lapel-gripped arm as my body retracts

    This was against one of our good heavyweights, so it took several attempts most of the time.
    That one is pretty SOP, especially in opposite grip situation. Getting inside and "posting the shoulder" as Jimmy Pedro calls it, and working to get sleeve control will still work of course.

    If you get beat to the shoulder post you can try to reach inside and get a biceps grip on the other guy, but it will be tough.

    A premium will be on getting the first grip for sure.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  5. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/28/2012 6:50pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Well given that the rules aren't even supposed to start being trialled until the Paris Grand Slam in Feb 2013, what on earth are they doing being implemented at a junior event in December 2012?

    And what guarantees does anyone have that if they aren't even using the rules inside the trial period and at the right level for the trial that their interpretations are correct?

    I suggest everyone just carries on breaking grips as normal until you go a tournament where the refs brief you on what rules they'll be using and how they'll be interpreting them.

    If you're unsure, simple solution is - make sure you get your grip first, then the other guy has to worry about whether his grip break is legal or not.
    Last statement is what we should all strive for in any case.

    And i agree with your assessment. Everyone needs to unbunch their panties a bit.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  6. Naszir is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/28/2012 11:12pm


     Style: BJJ, Judo, SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The coach I emailed is the one running the March tournament. I figured his house, his rules.
  7. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/29/2012 3:05pm

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     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fair enough, that may well be the explanation.

    Anyway we're veering off technique and into general discussion of the trial rules, so probs best to leave it here.
  8. Just Guess is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/30/2012 12:53am


     Style: ukemi & tapping out

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well I guess everyone in my club will have to experiment once practices start up again in about a week. Several members are going to be competing in the Midwest Collegiates, so we'll want to be prepared in case this rule is enforced.
  9. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/30/2012 12:37pm

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     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Had a little think about a simple sequence I would teach if the new rules were introduced in the UK.

    I've made the assumption that they will define 'breaking the grip with two hands' as some variation of one hand being on the wrist/arm and the other on the sleeve of that wrist/arm. i.e the classic two hand lapel grip break.



    I also made the assumption that the situation is right on right with the conventional sleeve lapel grip.

    The first step of the sequence would be to swim your left/sleeve hand in under uke's right armpit and secure a firm armpit grip on uke's jacket.

    Step 2 is to break uke's sleeve grip on your right/lapel hand. I would do this via the classic 'Elbow show' but any standard one handed sleeve grip break will do

    Raise your arm so you're showing uke your elbow.

    Thumb to ear



    Then forearm across your chest



    Then sharply jerk it back and away from uke using the power of your rotating upper body to break the grip and create space between you and uke.

    During this you should maintain your armpit grip with your left hand.

    Step 3 you should then be broadly in this position, note tori doesn't quite have an armpit grip, but the photo is close enough.



    You're now in a position to apply the standard 'one handed' kenka yotsu lapel grip break.

    Whereby your grip your own lapel just below where uke is gripping then extend your arm own sharply outwards while you snap your shoulder forward and pull your own gi across your chest. Using your upper body movement to snap uke's grip off your lapel. If you're not familiar with this just ask your coach, they should know what to do.

    This should leave you, left foot forward, with a good solid armpit grip with your left hand on your opponents jacket and your opponent with no grip anywhere on your jacket.

    Not only will you have a grip and he have no grip, but you've also effectively got yourself to the first stage of the famous Pedro shoulder post sequence.

    You now have control over uke's dominant shoulder and can hold them out with your left hand stopping them getting a good grip with their lapel hand and crucially controlling the inside space.

    You can even catch uke's lapel arm as it comes over and he tries to re-establish his grip, given it's not a break, but a block this would be well within the new rules.



    Controlling the inside space and forcing them to take the outside grip



    You can then reach across with your lapel hand to secure your desired lapel grip



    I'd be quite happy to fight double lapel from here, because I'm experienced using fighting up in the fat boys.

    However, others may not be comfortable in which case it will be a simple matter to switch your left hand from an armpit/ lapel grip to a grip on uke's elbow or sleeve.
  10. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    2/19/2013 5:05pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I attended the Pacific International in Richmond, BC this weekend. The head referee for Canada (Mr. Sunoda) gave a very good clinic on the new rules. Regarding two handed grip breaking, the only thing you need to know is that two hands means BOTH of your hands are physically grabbing uke arm/wrist/judogi on the same side. In other words, two on one is not allowed for grip breaking.

    You can grab your own gi with one hand and uke gi/arm with the other and it's all good.

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980
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