223608 Bullies, 3816 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 51 to 60 of 67
Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 7 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Permalost is offline
    Permalost's Avatar

    pro nonsense self defense

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    12,523

    Posted On:
    5/22/2013 4:30pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    You're thinking like a 21st century human here.
    I consider that a compliment.
    In evolutionary time scales the modern Caribbean, Southeast Asia, and South America didn't exist as separate things, and all those land masses were one supercontinent, so whatever pre-Human species lived there that eventually ended up as Homo Sapiens in West Africa spent much of its early evolution on Pangaea (about 100M years worth).

    For all we know, we grew fists to help us crack open early cocopineapplegrapefruitnuts, or some other fleshy, tendrilled, spiked monstrosity of a paleozoic melon.

    To your point, West Africa was right in the middle of Pangaea so it would make sense whatever evolutionary processes were going on back then, could have been centralized there (West Africa's predecessor was literally the crossroads of the old super continent), which could be why the most advanced species eventually emerged from the remnants of that region and not others.

    Your time scales are very, very off. The human story happens well after Pangaea or or other supercontinents.
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Right of course, I am talking about pre-primate human ancestors.

    Did the "fist" as either a tool OR weapon really first appear with the primates? Or did perhaps some ratlike, mammalian human ancestor develop the "fist" before that, maybe as a way of cracking open nuts or fruit, between the Paleozoic and Mesozoic times. Food for thought, at least.

    Seems like at least a plausible hypothesis. I can't prove a bit of it without a time machine.
    This looks like some backpedalling. You're saying that, all along, you really meant the evolution of the fist before primates?


    I think its safe to assume that the fist doesn't predate the hand, so speculating about a rat paw curled into a fist for smashing food is kinda silly.
    Last edited by Permalost; 5/22/2013 4:50pm at .
  2. DCS is offline
    DCS's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,036

    Posted On:
    5/22/2013 4:34pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 柔道

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    BTW, you should read the paper authored by Carrier & Morgan first to see what they are talking about.
  3. Permalost is offline
    Permalost's Avatar

    pro nonsense self defense

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    12,523

    Posted On:
    5/22/2013 4:34pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    It is an interesting thought, I think if you could point to tool use in something other than primates that may have the same common ancestor that could form said fist it would further increase plausibility.
    Tool use is different than using a fist, both in terms of utility and being able to identify tools outside of the self. Anyway, chimps have been known to make and use spears, water sponges, probing sticks etc. Elephants use sticks and rocks for tools. Otters use rocks to bash open mollusks. Dolphins make little nose guards out of sponges. None of these really use fists though. Chimps can make a fist but that's not how they tend to fight.
  4. goodlun is online now
    goodlun's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ramona
    Posts
    5,014

    Posted On:
    5/22/2013 4:45pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    Tool use is different than using a fist, both in terms of utility and being able to identify tools outside of the self. Anyway, chimps have been known to make and use spears, water sponges, probing sticks etc. Elephants use sticks and rocks for tools. Otters use rocks to bash open mollusks. Dolphins make little nose guards out of sponges. None of these really use fists though. Chimps can make a fist but that's not how they tend to fight.
    I could have sworn I have seen some good old hammer fist out of a chimp before but I am having a hard time finding good video of it so it appears your right.
  5. Permalost is offline
    Permalost's Avatar

    pro nonsense self defense

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    12,523

    Posted On:
    5/22/2013 4:47pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    I could have sworn I have seen some good old hammer fist out of a chimp before but I am having a hard time finding good video of it so it appears your right.
    Chimps hit each other with fists sometimes, but its more of a hammerfist or hammerslap. I've never seen a chimp attack with a forefist. Never seen a gorilla do it either, even though they're evolved for knuckle walking. If a chimp is fighting seriously, it uses its teeth.

    I think the human punch came about from mimicking a thrown projectile with nothing in the hand. Most martial arts don't mention this but throwing stuff is a pretty intuitive aggressive reaction.
  6. Permalost is offline
    Permalost's Avatar

    pro nonsense self defense

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    12,523

    Posted On:
    5/22/2013 4:52pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Here's something to consider. This is Maotherium, a 120M year old rat-thing that fits somewhere in human ancestry.



    It has an inner ear structure that scientists think may explain how the human ear developed.

    So...it stands to reason there may be a corresponding animal somewhere in the 300M to 25M BC timeframe that would help explain our fists better than primates do.

    http://www.redorbit.com/news/science...on_of_hearing/
    120 million years ago is still after Pangaea.
  7. Vieux Normand is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    4,271

    Posted On:
    5/22/2013 5:05pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 血鷲

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by OwlMatt View Post
    The wimps are having babies just as fast as the badasses.
    The human hand evolved to change diapers and bitchslap opponents...but only rarely the latter.
  8. goodlun is online now
    goodlun's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ramona
    Posts
    5,014

    Posted On:
    5/22/2013 5:12pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fools and Blasphemers the human hand didn't evolve it was created and the earth is only 6000 years old!
    For this site here told me so and all your science stuff is as fallible as man is.
    http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...w-old-is-earth
  9. Permalost is offline
    Permalost's Avatar

    pro nonsense self defense

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    12,523

    Posted On:
    5/22/2013 6:19pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Last summer while I was out hiking, I got to see a raven carry a rat high into the air, then use the ground as an anvil to drop it to its death. I hear seagulls have figured out to use concrete to break open mollusk shells like this. From this I can surmise that bird anatomy evolved for judo.
  10. Permalost is offline
    Permalost's Avatar

    pro nonsense self defense

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    12,523

    Posted On:
    5/22/2013 6:43pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    You're thinking like a 21st century human here.

    In evolutionary time scales the modern Caribbean, Southeast Asia, and South America didn't exist as separate things, and all those land masses were one supercontinent, so whatever pre-Human species lived there that eventually ended up as Homo Sapiens in West Africa spent much of its early evolution on Pangaea (about 100M years worth).

    For all we know, we grew fists to help us crack open early cocopineapplegrapefruitnuts, or some other fleshy, tendrilled, spiked monstrosity of a paleozoic melon.

    To your point, West Africa was right in the middle of Pangaea so it would make sense whatever evolutionary processes were going on back then, could have been centralized there (West Africa's predecessor was literally the crossroads of the old super continent), which could be why the most advanced species eventually emerged from the remnants of that region and not others.

    I'm quoting this again to say that this was a reply to the first sentence of what I said, but then ignored the other paragraphs that describe human evolution.
Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 7 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.