218358 Bullies, 6798 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 41 to 50 of 69
Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 67 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. OwlMatt is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    839

    Posted On:
    5/22/2013 1:22pm


     Style: aikido

    -1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    Hmm. Interesting. It's certainly possible.

    I disagree with some of the article - like the last line that says aggressive behavior no longer serves an evolutionary purpose. That's pure feelgood hippie garbage.
    I think you're misunderstanding that line. Saying aggressive behavior no longer serves an evolutionary purpose is not the same thing as saying that aggressive behavior is no longer called for. Remember, the same guy who you're quoting said, only a few lines above that, "The bottom line is that women need to fight and defend themselves too."

    What he means when he says that aggressive behavior no longer serves an evolutionary purpose is that humans, for the most part, are no longer being naturally selected according to their capacity for aggressive behavior. The wimps are having babies just as fast as the badasses.
  2. W. Rabbit is offline
    W. Rabbit's Avatar

    You know me...the snakebite hiss, the Devil's Grip, the Iron Fist

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Work
    Posts
    7,536

    Posted On:
    5/22/2013 1:26pm

    supporting member
     Style: Hung Fist, BJJ, Qi Gong

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    The link DCS posted has a pretty thorough discussion on the topic, the general consensus being that the evolutionary utility of the hand is its dexterity and ability to manipulate tools, over the ability to fistfight.
    And manipulate food; the most important use of any animal's naturally evolved "tool set" is to feed. The same goes for the shape of teeth.

    Before man built fire or homes, he had to crush open grapefruit and coconuts and pineapples and melons by evolving the hammer fist.

    Humans may not use it much today for eating, but our evolutionary relatives do.

    Here is an actual monkey hitting itself with a banana to break it open and eat it.

    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 5/22/2013 1:34pm at .
  3. W. Rabbit is offline
    W. Rabbit's Avatar

    You know me...the snakebite hiss, the Devil's Grip, the Iron Fist

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Work
    Posts
    7,536

    Posted On:
    5/22/2013 1:42pm

    supporting member
     Style: Hung Fist, BJJ, Qi Gong

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My own theory is that if punching other humans and physical combat (as opposed to basic eating and constructing) shaped the human hand, evolution would not have put all of the hand's most fragile bones (phalanges) in front of a punch where they take the most impact.

    Again, the hammer fist doesn't have that problem, and the "meatiest" part of the hand is on the bottom, suggesting the if the hand evolved for smashing anything, it was hammering downward, as opposed to punching forward.

    Just a theory...
  4. Permalost is offline
    Permalost's Avatar

    pro nonsense self defense

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    12,365

    Posted On:
    5/22/2013 2:31pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    And manipulate food; the most important use of any animal's naturally evolved "tool set" is to feed. The same goes for the shape of teeth.

    Before man built fire or homes, he had to crush open grapefruit and coconuts and pineapples and melons by evolving the hammer fist.

    Humans may not use it much today for eating, but our evolutionary relatives do.

    Here is an actual monkey hitting itself with a banana to break it open and eat it.

    Pretty sure grapefruit (Carribean), coconuts (Southeast Asian), and pineapples (South America) would not have been on the menu. Also some primates are more clever at opening bananas than humans (they'll bite the short end and split the peel in half in one move).

    Here's my understanding of how human evolution unfolded:
    The setting is West Africa. The common image is of a savannah, but when humanity was young, this wasn't the case.

    When humanity still wasn't quite its own thing, our ancestors were hairy primates that lived in a jungle/forest sort of environment. Primate adaptations like brachiation would be useful here. But humanity was driven to change by far away unseen forces, and this was no exception.

    Something happened in the convection cell of the Indian Ocean, and I hear it was related to India pushing up against Asia, creating the Himalayas. This changed the weather patterns of West Africa, changing it from jungle to savannah. Our ancestors were no longer living in trees and had a more hostile environment to deal with. One where an upright stance would cast a smaller shadow, meaning less pounding sunlight per person. Where people had to be smarter to make use of the diminishing, changing resources. Where less hair would mean more efficient cooling in the hot sun, and where standing upright would give superior glances over the tall grass to spot game or berries.

    Alongside humans, other organisms evolved to fit the changing landscape as well. Tubers became more common, since the direct sun favored plants that could store water and nutrients underground. These became a popular food of early man, and led to a realization: potatoes are way better when you cook them. The invention of cooking is thought to have had an effect on the human digestive system as well (maybe that's why the appendix seems useless now).

    So with such broad-sweeping factors affecting how our species became us, it seems like the punching bones of the hand are a really miniscule part of the human story.
  5. W. Rabbit is offline
    W. Rabbit's Avatar

    You know me...the snakebite hiss, the Devil's Grip, the Iron Fist

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Work
    Posts
    7,536

    Posted On:
    5/22/2013 3:23pm

    supporting member
     Style: Hung Fist, BJJ, Qi Gong

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    Pretty sure grapefruit (Carribean), coconuts (Southeast Asian), and pineapples (South America) would not have been on the menu.
    You're thinking like a 21st century human here.

    In evolutionary time scales the modern Caribbean, Southeast Asia, and South America didn't exist as separate things, and all those land masses were one supercontinent, so whatever pre-Human species lived there that eventually ended up as Homo Sapiens in West Africa spent much of its early evolution on Pangaea (about 100M years worth).

    For all we know, we grew fists to help us crack open early cocopineapplegrapefruitnuts, or some other fleshy, tendrilled, spiked monstrosity of a paleozoic melon.

    To your point, West Africa was right in the middle of Pangaea so it would make sense whatever evolutionary processes were going on back then, could have been centralized there (West Africa's predecessor was literally the crossroads of the old super continent), which could be why the most advanced species eventually emerged from the remnants of that region and not others.

    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 5/22/2013 3:39pm at .
  6. DCS is offline
    DCS's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,031

    Posted On:
    5/22/2013 3:43pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 柔道

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    You're thinking like a 21st century human here.

    In evolutionary time scales the modern Caribbean, Southeast Asia, and South America didn't exist as separate things, and all those land masses were one supercontinent, so whatever pre-Human species lived there that eventually ended up as Homo Sapiens in West Africa spent much of its early evolution on Pangaea (about 100M years worth).

    For all we know, we grew fists to help us crack open early cocopineapplegrapefruitnuts, or some other fleshy, tendrilled, spiked monstrosity of a paleozoic melon.

    To your point, West Africa was right in the middle of Pangaea so it would make sense whatever evolutionary processes were going on back then, could have been centralized there (West Africa's predecessor was literally the crossroads of the old super continent), which could be why the most advanced species eventually emerged from the remnants of that region and not others.

    Are you serious?
  7. W. Rabbit is offline
    W. Rabbit's Avatar

    You know me...the snakebite hiss, the Devil's Grip, the Iron Fist

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Work
    Posts
    7,536

    Posted On:
    5/22/2013 3:49pm

    supporting member
     Style: Hung Fist, BJJ, Qi Gong

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    Are you serious?
    Yes, in a speculative sort of way. I don't claim to be an expert in any of this stuff by the way, so please don't take my word for it..the existing literature on this subject is still a heated topic. No one really seems to know the answers here, aside from reasoning it out which was how we got to eating/tool construction as more likely than combat as an evolutionary driver in the older thread.

    What do you think? Do you not buy into the theory that our pre-human ancestors once lived on a single supercontinent before ending up in West Africa?



    Granted, back during the supercontinent age human ancestors were much smaller mammals than primates, etc, but at some point evolution turned what was in the Pangaean era a sort of rat-claw, into the more recognizable primate/man fist.

    Anyways...I'd love to hear more about what other people think.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 5/22/2013 4:04pm at .
  8. DCS is offline
    DCS's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,031

    Posted On:
    5/22/2013 4:04pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 柔道

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    What do you think? Do you not buy into the theory that our pre-human ancestors once lived on a single supercontinent before ending up in West Africa?
    Which pre-human ancestors are you talking about? The oldest primate known appeared waaaay after Pangaea broke in pieces.

    I see you have already edited your post. Anyway, we're talking of how/where/when the hand evolved not if there were mammals in the fucking Paleozoic for we can be wildy speculative and put the origin of hand in some primordial amoeba.
    Last edited by DCS; 5/22/2013 4:14pm at .
  9. W. Rabbit is offline
    W. Rabbit's Avatar

    You know me...the snakebite hiss, the Devil's Grip, the Iron Fist

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Work
    Posts
    7,536

    Posted On:
    5/22/2013 4:09pm

    supporting member
     Style: Hung Fist, BJJ, Qi Gong

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    Which pre-human ancestors are you talking about? The oldest primate known appeared waaaay after Pangea broke to pieces.
    Right of course, I am talking about pre-primate human ancestors.

    Did the "fist" as either a tool OR weapon really first appear with the primates? Or did perhaps some ratlike, mammalian human ancestor develop the "fist" before that, maybe as a way of cracking open nuts or fruit, between the Paleozoic and Mesozoic times. Food for thought, at least.

    Seems like at least a plausible hypothesis. I can't prove a bit of it without a time machine.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 5/22/2013 4:14pm at .
  10. W. Rabbit is offline
    W. Rabbit's Avatar

    You know me...the snakebite hiss, the Devil's Grip, the Iron Fist

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Work
    Posts
    7,536

    Posted On:
    5/22/2013 4:19pm

    supporting member
     Style: Hung Fist, BJJ, Qi Gong

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here's something to consider. This is Maotherium, a 120M year old rat-thing that fits somewhere in human ancestry.



    It has an inner ear structure that scientists think may explain how the human ear developed.

    So...it stands to reason there may be a corresponding animal somewhere in the 300M to 25M BC timeframe that would help explain our fists better than primates do.

    http://www.redorbit.com/news/science...on_of_hearing/
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 5/22/2013 4:22pm at .
Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 67 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.