Seriously considering joining the Army

***battlefields*** · Posted On: 12/18/2012 7:55pm

As some of you may know, I was made redundant recently. The second time in two years a company has decided it would be a good idea to release me from their talons, just before Christmas. Fortunately I have been graciously given the opportunity to stay on until the end of February, which will mean I get to work even longer for the company that has decreed it does not value my work! How awesome is that?!

I'm not here to complain about the redundancy, truthfully, it is one of the best things I reckon could have ever happened to me. I'm in a new city, with a new life, I might as well have a new career.

With the recent move of the gym to its new premises, I did want to be a part of the gym in any way possible, maintenance, reception, fucking cleaning, I didn't care. The way I see it is that I would continue training and in 5-6 years I would be a purple belt and able to teach. But that is years away, I have debts now that need to be paid and I'm sick to death of working as an office stiff, clacking the keyboard to look busy and hoping that no one sees I'm posting on Bullshido. I can't get another job in this field, employers talk about loyalty and a lack of it in the current generations but **** you employers. **** you, I ain't even going to dignify that with a fucking response.

Growing up I wanted to be in the Army, I would read SAS stories, did Survival Courses, joined the Cadets. Then my latter teenage years decided on a different path. And that path has arrived here, over a decade later, with no real qualifications, nothing but a shitload of life experience. But life experience in the way I have is shithouse on a CV and although my CV is filled with positions that show that I can do what I do well and have managed to do it well for years, I'm unlikely to ever crack a decent salary without seriously compromising my desire to stay the **** out of these glass tombs called offices. I can talk, an asset no doubt, but without qualifications, my talk will only hold a small amount of weight in this corporate world of buttfucking and cocksucking. Especially as I do not engage in either cocksucking or buttfucking.

What is my alternative? The bank is not going to say, "sure, take a couple of years to get a qualification in some bullshit then start at the lowest paygrade, we'll wait for payment", so uni is out and truthfully, I don't have a clue what I would want to do at uni anyway. Anything I'd want to do is unlikely to yield too much in the way of a paying job. Could I just take a time filling position, a call centre, etc, until something better comes along? Then when nothing better comes along, I'm stuck in a fucking call centre position, hating myself.

So I revisited the idea that I would join the Army. I'm 30 with life experience, which means I could very well join as an Officer. I'd get paid a decent wage with accommodation and food, as well as medical, supplied. Hell, I'd be able to get loans with a fraction of the interest repayments I'm currently paying, meaning in a year or so I would be debt free, compared to the 3-4 years I am currently facing if I had a job that paid me what my current job is paying me now. My pay would increase without fail each year as well as when I went up in rank. I could do all cool **** like parachuting, abseiling, shooting, heaps of cool **** I can't even think of, and every time I do it, get paid extra.

At the end, whenever I get out, I would have qualifications that are widely respected and accepted, even if I don't exactly know what they are at the moment.

I know it is a weird thing to say, but the only thing that is holding me back is that I want to continue my training in BJJ. As a single male with barely any ties to my local area, as well as minimal ties (other than family) in the state I grew up in, it is literally the only thing that is making me think twice. I know it is stupid, that I could continue my training when I get time off/ get back/ on base, but I really like where I am training now. I can't rely on there being employment in the next few months, though, and considering the process usually takes a few months, I probably should start soon.

Advice or comments appreciated.

**Steve0** · Posted On: 12/18/2012 8:04pm

Hey mate, coming from a current (soon to be ex) ADF member, I can honestly say that its a very hard decision. It also depends on what Corps. your trying to get into, although brass don't always get a choice. The money isnt bad, but the 18 months at RMC and/or ADFA would be pure misery.
Also get your mind away from shooting,abseiling, para quals and all that deadly ****, because the Army has a wonderful way of telling you what you will be doing, whether your interested or not. Take everything and anything DFR says with a grain of salt, because they are only there to fill positions, and you are just a number, nothing more. Any more details on what you want in particular out of the army, I will try to help

EDIT* I am also happy to answer any questions you may have, albeit in a very honest fashion.

**Cullion** · Posted On: 12/18/2012 8:16pm

Purple belt is 5-6 years away.. how long have you been training in BJJ?

I don't think you should try and plan your life around something you're relatively new at.

I don't know if the military has different age limits in Australia but in the UK you'd want to get this done quickly if you're going to do it at all, because in your 30s you'd quickly start finding that you're too old for a lot of stuff. All the cinematic special forces **** would be completely out of the question for somebody starting in their 30s with no previous experience.

**Steve0** · Posted On: 12/18/2012 8:23pm

age limit in the ADF is 18-55 inclusive on the day of enlistment. And bang on about the SF business, after 18 months at RMC, followed by what is usually 2-3 years training posting, then 1 year op posting (i think), thats when you could go for selection. So lets say minimum 33-34, doing sascat or 2cdo selection, including the extra modules required to join as an orificer...
I mean this in the nicest way possible, but it sounds like you are basing a MAJOR life change around getting made redundant. It could pay off, you may end up in a Bn, but officers are admin bitches, or you could end up as a pogue behind a desk in some remote fuckhole hating life just as much. I also think the IMPS for brass is 5 or 7 years?

**Cullion** · Posted On: 12/18/2012 8:40pm

I think you should probably ask yourself these questions:

i) What do I really dislike so much about what I do now ? You don't want to repeat the same problem somewhere else so get a really clear idea of what's wrong with the current situation. Get specific.

ii) Could I still enjoy being in the military if I didn't get to do one of the super-cool sounding secret agent/commando jobs, but, y'know, drove trucks or repaired radio equipment etc..? Most 18 year old boys who dream about being in the SAS and join the army don't get to be in the SAS. You're 30 with no prior military experience. You really probably aren't going to be in the SAS.

**alex** · Posted On: 12/18/2012 9:22pm

you're too old, fatman. and your tits are too big. get the **** off my porch.

***battlefields*** · Posted On: 12/18/2012 10:11pm

SteveO, I appreciate the comments and advice. I live with a Reservist and train with several active and inactive Servicemen, so I've been fortunate enough to have people around to ask questions. Everything helps. What did you join as? How old were you when you joined?

Also, I can't go to ADFA, apparently I'm too old. Applying as a 30 year old with high school certification only for Officer at RMC, I would only be able to take a couple of GSO jobs. That's fine.

It is not a decision I have just randomly come to because I have been made redundant. I went to enlist in my early twenties but had legal difficulties at the time that didn't allow it. I was in the Cadets from 16-17. It has ALWAYS been an alternative that I have visited every single time I have found myself looking for work. The main reason I didn't was because I was having too much fun with my mates at the time, but that fun is long gone. This time it feels like it is the MAJOR alternative, rather than the MINOR alternative. The reason it feels that way is I am looking at long term job security. I have had my fill of job changes, but more importantly I have had my fill of the bullshit of working in the private sector.

I do not expect to do any of that crazy **** I mentioned, not straight away and certainly not for a few years, I expect a job and for the most part I am aware that as a job it will severely suck in certain aspects. However, it is a job that at the end of tenure you are guaranteed qualifications that the private sector value, learnt while making and saving money. Also, I'll be going for an Officer position, so if successful, very well might be on that long long road mentioned previously. That's fine. As I said, at the end I will have qualifications that have been paid for by the Army. If I stay in the private sector I will have to pay for qualifications as well as pay living costs.

I have been in debt for my entire adult life. This would give me the opportunity to get rid of that debt quickly and painlessly. If I remained in the private sector I would be tied to it for years to come due to living costs and the debt. By the time I leave I will have money saved, money that could be put to good use.

Originally Posted by Cullion

I think you should probably ask yourself these questions:

i) What do I really dislike so much about what I do now ? You don't want to repeat the same problem somewhere else so get a really clear idea of what's wrong with the current situation. Get specific.

ii) Could I still enjoy being in the military if I didn't get to do one of the super-cool sounding secret agent/commando jobs, but, y'know, drove trucks or repaired radio equipment etc..? Most 18 year old boys who dream about being in the SAS and join the army don't get to be in the SAS. You're 30 with no prior military experience. You really probably aren't going to be in the SAS.

Thanks Cullion.

1. I hate the glass mausoleum I am cooped up in every day. I hate the pretense that people actually care about you while treating you as a number (at least in the military you know that they don't care about you and you are just a number). I hate that I could get another job, with similar pay and still be in the same position in three years time, despite being promised pay increases and promotions. I hate that the enemy is invisible. I hate that there is literal psychology research done to extract more money from my fellow Australians and that I know it is happening. I hate the fact that I have been doing sales since I was a kid and was told I could make millions, then finding out that to make millions, I had to make others poor. I hate that I am sedentary. I hate that I am stagnant. I hate that my intelligence and creativity is used without my permission (there are specific examples). I could go on, but I am aware that one could argue that I will face all that in the military. The difference is the military make no allusions that it will be otherwise.

2. I'm not expecting to do super cool ****. I want qualifications. I can't get qualifications in my current standing, no matter how I try engineer it. I love driving, it is one skill I possess. I'd love to learn how to repair radio equipment. I want to learn. I don't expect to be SAS qualified, however, being paid to get up at whatever time I am paid to get up and exercise, then do whatever mundane or exciting **** is to go down that day is much better than getting up early to walk to a train station, travel with all the other zombies to end up at a desk scrolling through Bullshido threads, only to go home and wait for the most exciting couple of hours of my day, training in martial arts.

It is the opportunity it presents. Yeah, I could end up a desk jockey in some joint outback. Or I could end up in Afghanistan fucking picking shrapnel out of myself or my mates. Or I could end up doing some really cool **** somewhere or I could end up doing some really mundane **** somewhere else.

***jnp*** · Posted On: 12/19/2012 12:11am

I always use a cost benefit analysis model when approaching any significant decision.

Is the time you will spend in the military worth becoming debt free? Will you acquire a skill that will raise your profile to future employers?

That last one is the deciding factor in my opinion. The only way this kind of commitment and sacrifice is worth it at your age is if you use the military to acquire a new skill. One that will make you both more employable, and give you more options when you exit the military.

Alternative idea, have you considered looking for a job at the gym you are currently training? Is that even an option?

**Steve0** · Posted On: 12/19/2012 12:22am

No worries mate, sounds like you've thought about it a bit, to answer your questions, i joined at 19, RAINF, ARA. Currently awaiting med discharge.
Biggest downsides to the army in general:
Basic training (whether pooks or RMC) will be the shittest time of your life.
Cadets (hereafter meaning officer cadets) have 18 months of the worst **** to put up with, then it could all end up putting you right behind a desk again, in logistics. That being said, the personnel management and HR skills you get are highly desired in the civilian world, allowing you to get to middle manangement as a starting point, generally.
Alot of cadets want to go to RAINF and "lead men into battle"and win themselves a VC, so it can be a tad competitive to get into
All overseas trips will be well and truly done by the time you graduate from RMC. Afghan,timor,solomons included. So unless WW3 breaks out, no bulk cash/ fun for you
Officers in general are the admin bee's of the army. You are in charge of a platoon to start out with, but you will only participate in some of the field ex's
The amount of drill you have to do is both stupendous and ridiculous. and superfluous. (you'll see)
overall though mate, if your just looking for a job, some decent experiences, good quals, and OCCASIONALLY some cool ****, its not a bad gig. Its basically your job to **** on people though, then in turn get fucked on by those higher than yo. Politics and asskissing unfortunately are HUGE in the commisioned ranks, as its more of who you know than what you know. There are shitloads of NCO's out there who are brilliant at there job.

Goodluck with whatever you choose brother

***battlefields*** · Posted On: 12/19/2012 1:10am

Originally Posted by Steve0

No worries mate, sounds like you've thought about it a bit, to answer your questions, i joined at 19, RAINF, ARA. Currently awaiting med discharge.
Biggest downsides to the army in general:
Basic training (whether pooks or RMC) will be the shittest time of your life.
Cadets (hereafter meaning officer cadets) have 18 months of the worst **** to put up with, then it could all end up putting you right behind a desk again, in logistics. That being said, the personnel management and HR skills you get are highly desired in the civilian world, allowing you to get to middle manangement as a starting point, generally.
Alot of cadets want to go to RAINF and "lead men into battle"and win themselves a VC, so it can be a tad competitive to get into
All overseas trips will be well and truly done by the time you graduate from RMC. Afghan,timor,solomons included. So unless WW3 breaks out, no bulk cash/ fun for you
Officers in general are the admin bee's of the army. You are in charge of a platoon to start out with, but you will only participate in some of the field ex's
The amount of drill you have to do is both stupendous and ridiculous. and superfluous. (you'll see)
overall though mate, if your just looking for a job, some decent experiences, good quals, and OCCASIONALLY some cool ****, its not a bad gig. Its basically your job to **** on people though, then in turn get fucked on by those higher than yo. Politics and asskissing unfortunately are HUGE in the commisioned ranks, as its more of who you know than what you know. There are shitloads of NCO's out there who are brilliant at there job.

Goodluck with whatever you choose brother

Cheers man. All that sounds exactly like what I know about it. It is the qualifications that I want, as you say, the personnel management, etc, will be desired by pretty much all sectors and is training I would have to pay through the nose with money I don't have in order to get them. However long it is down the track that I'd get out I'd be debt free with qualifications, as well as experience.

Originally Posted by jnp

I always use a cost benefit analysis model when approaching any significant decision.

Is the time you will spend in the military worth becoming debt free? Will you acquire a skill that will raise your profile to future employers?

I believe I would acquire many skills that would raise my profile to future employers. Currently my profile is that of a low level salesman, high level telemarketer. I'm like bottom rung of the corporate ladder and with my lack of qualifications likely to stay there. As SteveO has stated, the private sector in Australia views the personnel management stuff really highly. In four years sans military I'd still have debt and possibly much more, considering if I was to get qualifications I would pay through the nose for them in both time and money.

Say I am in for 6 years, I come out at 36-37 debt free with possibly a decent amount of savings behind me and the ability to put forward a CV with academic and military qualifications, combined with the corporate experience from my 20s. Two non militaristic options, I could find a job similar to what I am doing now, like I have done in the past, with zero stability, scrape together some dollars to obtain qualifications, possibly putting myself further into debt both dollars and time wise, then emerge at 36-37 with qualifications while kicking myself that I am still working in offices doing **** I loathe, wondering why I didn't take the opportunity to do something I have wanted to do since I was young. The other is to declare bankruptcy so that no one can go after me when I go to uni, try and get qualifications and emerge in 6-7 years with nothing to show except for qualifications and a history of bankruptcy.

That last one is the deciding factor in my opinion. The only way this kind of commitment and sacrifice is worth it at your age is if you use the military to acquire a new skill. One that will make you both more employable, and give you more options when you exit the military.

Alternative idea, have you considered looking for a job at the gym you are currently training? Is that even an option?

Great question, jnp, indeed it is an option. I have already requested a position at the gym for next year, it has been tabled by the owner. At the same time, I must hedge my bets, because it has been tabled as an option "when things get better financially". Does that sound like something to base a future on? To me it sounds like something to tide me over for a while, but as I mentioned, I have some significant debts racked up on a decent income, my repayments alone could cripple a small business, so I have to be thinking forward.

There's no use thinking too far ahead, I'm not even accepted yet. Who knows? Maybe the gym does take off and they need me and I put paid to the Army idea because I will have the option of doing what I deeply desire. Maybe the gym takes off but doesn't need me for whatever reason. Maybe the Army turns around and says that with my test results I can be whatever the **** I want to be in the Army, they're that good. Maybe they turn around and say there is no way they are putting me anywhere near a gun.

I've still got aptitude tests, medical tests, intelligence tests, tests on the tests. I'm certainly a long way from being accepted. Funnily enough they still had my application from when I went to enlist in 2006. I didn't think I went far enough in the process to have my details registered.

In the meantime I'll hope that the gym does take off and that I can take a job there so I can do what I love. That is the only civvie scenario that I wouldn't care if the bank went collector on me. What's to collect? hahahaha.