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  1. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/16/2012 6:15pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dickhead View Post
    Fair enough.
    I wasn't saying 'he said that it will always work' I was posting that 'it can't be trusted to'. Meaning it shouldn't be relied upon to. If the sound scares off an intruder, great! Then you don't need to shoot an intruder/hold them at gunpoint. Just pointing out a way that that might go wrong. I know that it has worked for some people in the past, but didn't want the OP or anybody else to think that this could be counted on. I've read and heard accounts of this happening, but, just like everybody else, criminals are unpredictable, and can also read, listen, learn, think, and plan to. Maybe some burglar has heard or read the same things and decided "hmmm, I REALLY want whatever **** I find in this house, and if some guy racks his shotgun, I'm going to get him before he gets me." I don't know. Basically just saying, if there is an intruder in your house, don't try to scare them off first, because it could get you killed if things don't turn out how you want them to.
    Psst.... Advice thread about gun purchase, not rant about a comedic remark thread.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 12/16/2012 6:20pm at .
  2. SteveM is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/16/2012 6:19pm

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    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well in that case a semi-auto Mossberg is a fine shotgun. I'd suggest the 12 gauge though, more bang per blast. With a semi-auto I expect you won't find the recoil an issue, but if you do "reduced recoil" loads are available that still deliver more pellets/balls than 20 gauge.

    For example: http://www.sgammo.com/product/12-gau...-recoil-ra1200
  3. Dickhead is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/16/2012 6:22pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Psst.... Advice thread not rant about a comedic remark thread.
    Um, ok.
    To the OP:
    Well, a shotgun is a great home defense weapon, and with most decent pump actions you can find side saddles for extra ammo, and easy to install extended magazine tubes. As mentioned before, best for stationary defense from a good vantage point. Get some 00 buck and you're good to go.
    To IIF:
    There, more advice, less rant.
  4. Robstafarian is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/17/2012 6:29am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I just spent some time researching a possible alternative to this Turkish-made Mossberg. The world of semi-auto 20 gauge tactical shotguns is ridiculously small, as illustrated by this example.

    Purpose
    To find a semi-auto 20 gauge shotgun which either suited home defense or could be adapted to do so. Particularly, I wanted to see if I could find a shotgun which would support a vertical fore grip (this would very much help given the way my spasticity affects my left side), a receiver-mounted shell carrier, and a loading procedure which allowed for one-handed reloading.

    Result
    The best I could do was a Remington 1100 Sporting Model #25399, modded with roughly $500 worth of parts (which I will detail tomorrow if anyone is interested). Given that the shotgun itself sells for more than twice the cost of the SA-20 Tactical, this is an unacceptable price difference.

    Alternative Model Advantages
    1. Allows for one-handed reloading
    2. Supports a vertical fore grip, somewhat (light-style rail on a forend which might work)
    3. Compatible with a receiver-mounted shell carrier
    4. Long barrel and wood stock/forend included, for not being "that guy" if I ever try sport shooting

    Alternative Model Disadvantages
    1. Greatly increased cost (more than $1,000 difference)
    2. No Picatinney rail for flexible sight options
    3. Most appropriate barrel is 21 inches long with Improved Cylinder taper and rifle sights
    4. Factory-installed parts will have to be stored somewhere
  5. Devil is offline
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    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    12/17/2012 9:32am

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    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Robstafarian View Post
    I just spent some time researching a possible alternative to this Turkish-made Mossberg. The world of semi-auto 20 gauge tactical shotguns is ridiculously small, as illustrated by this example.

    Purpose
    To find a semi-auto 20 gauge shotgun which either suited home defense or could be adapted to do so. Particularly, I wanted to see if I could find a shotgun which would support a vertical fore grip (this would very much help given the way my spasticity affects my left side), a receiver-mounted shell carrier, and a loading procedure which allowed for one-handed reloading.

    Result
    The best I could do was a Remington 1100 Sporting Model #25399, modded with roughly $500 worth of parts (which I will detail tomorrow if anyone is interested). Given that the shotgun itself sells for more than twice the cost of the SA-20 Tactical, this is an unacceptable price difference.

    Alternative Model Advantages
    1. Allows for one-handed reloading
    2. Supports a vertical fore grip, somewhat (light-style rail on a forend which might work)
    3. Compatible with a receiver-mounted shell carrier
    4. Long barrel and wood stock/forend included, for not being "that guy" if I ever try sport shooting

    Alternative Model Disadvantages
    1. Greatly increased cost (more than $1,000 difference)
    2. No Picatinney rail for flexible sight options
    3. Most appropriate barrel is 21 inches long with Improved Cylinder taper and rifle sights
    4. Factory-installed parts will have to be stored somewhere

    If you're considering the 1100 you'll probably be better off with the 11-87. It's nearly identical to the 1100 but it's more versatile.

    It has a different gas system and can fire anything from light 2 3/4" loads up to 3" magnums. You can't do this with the 1100. With the 1100, that would require a barrel change.
  6. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/17/2012 4:16pm

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    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've got a 20 and 12 guage. There is a little difference in kick, but not so significant that I would downgrade from a 12. While shooting on the tactical shotgun team, we sometimes shoot from the hip just for practice. I didn't have any problems with that until my hands started getting sweaty. So that alleviates the kick problem. We were using shorted barrels also. Now, throw some slugs in there and it's a whole different ball game. I also like that a lot of companies have tons of modifications for 12 guages. But the 20 less so.

    I only really use my 20 for hunting small game.

    Oh, and about what Vorpal was saying. I saw a small female make about a thousand inmates drop to the ground all by racking a round in a 12 guage. Until then, those inmates were beating each other with all types of weapons. They also had beat a guard up and were about to do the same to another one. That sound was enough to stop and defuse the situation.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
  7. Robstafarian is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/17/2012 4:41pm


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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I will look into a 12 gauge, then. Benelli needs to have a "Give a Cripple an M4" program.*


    *How many men would leap off their roofs to qualify?
  8. Devil is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/17/2012 4:45pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    By the way, since we're on the discussion of self defense shotguns. I know you're probably not going this route anyway, but avoid short pistol grip only pump shotguns. I shot a short little lightweight Mossberg Persuader 12 gauge recently with bird shot. Holy mother of Jesus. That son of a bitch kicked like a fucking mule. It felt like somebody was slapping my palm with a police baton every time I pulled the trigger.

    Not a fun gun to shoot AT ALL. Just saying.
  9. Robstafarian is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/18/2012 3:22am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Scut Farkus View Post
    I know you're probably not going this route anyway, but avoid short pistol grip only pump shotguns.
    Yeah, I never understood the appeal of those. I started out quite recoil sensitive, much less so now (I actually enjoy the feel of a 1911 firing ball), and even looking at that configuration made my hands hurt.

    The 12 gauge scenario looks to play out thusly (links from my bookmarks):
    The ammunition link is a bulk buy so I can use my chosen defense load for break-in.
  10. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/18/2012 9:32am

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     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Robstafarian View Post
    The 12 gauge scenario looks to play out thusly (links from my bookmarks):
    The ammunition link is a bulk buy so I can use my chosen defense load for break-in.
    Looks pretty cool. Post pics when you get it all set up.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
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