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  1. jspeedy is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/14/2013 11:19pm


     Style: FMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Why traditional FMA beats other TMA

    So I was talking with a fellow FMA Bully recently and he made an important point; How do TMAs train? What is the core of most TMA? Forms! Single man drills; solo drills are how TMA have been passed down for countless generations.

    Here at bullshido we recogize the value of TMA (counter to what casual observers may believe) we also know what is missing, live training.

    Now compare eastern TMA to FMA and how it is trained and passed down from generation to generation. What is the difference between FMA and other eastern arts? Two man drills. FMA is full of two man drills! While other TMAs pass down single man components FMA passes down both single man and two man components. Forms and solo training are important to familiarize the newb with the basic motions of an art. Two man drills even those that are choreographed teach practitioners basic timing and coordination. Eventually two man drills reach their limit but they do take the traditional one man training approach a step further.

    If you take a guy that trains only solo drills and compare him to a guy that does two man drills i'd put the guy with the two man training at an advantage. You can always take it a step further an incorporate live resistance training.

    My question is who knows of traditional two man drills for TMA? I'm sure Judo randori is a prime example, but Judo is a newer TMA and borderlines on what you can call TMA, how about MT or BJJ for that matter or even boxing? I'm addressing the older TMA styles like pure JJJ and Kung Fu systems. Where are the two man drills? With FMA two man drills are inherent to the arts with traditional JMA and CMA i'm not so sure, two man drills may exist but seem more obscure.
  2. OwlMatt is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/14/2013 11:38pm


     Style: aikido

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My aikido is nothing but two-man drills, but I wouldn't say that makes it particularly practical.
  3. jspeedy is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/14/2013 11:52pm


     Style: FMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'd still say Aikido falls into the category of Judo, realtively new. Still, Aikido incorporates some throws and submissions into two man drills. Some TMAs claim throws and submissions are within the single man forms. So i'd say in this respect the Aikido guys are a step ahead.
  4. ChenPengFi is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/14/2013 11:54pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Hung Gar, Choy Lay Fut

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Two man drills and sets are common in Hung Kuen and CLF.
  5. jspeedy is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/15/2013 12:03am


     Style: FMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    Two man drills and sets are common in Hung Kuen and CLF.
    Well I figured the CMA guys would come out and prove my theories wrong. Any chance of videos? Are these two man sets the same from lineage to lineage? Are they common?
  6. KendalGuro is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/15/2013 12:11am


     Style: Arnis de Mano

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Apparently they have a two man drill at �FLAMING FIST�

  7. ChenPengFi is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/15/2013 12:39am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Hung Gar, Choy Lay Fut

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jspeedy View Post
    Well I figured the CMA guys would come out and prove my theories wrong. Any chance of videos? Are these two man sets the same from lineage to lineage? Are they common?
    The sets and drills themselves, and the emphasis placed on them with regards to time spent vs doing solo work and free sparring varies greatly.

    Youtube has tons of stuff ranging from partnered conditioning and drills to longer two person sets.



    This is fairly typical of the latter.

  8. NeilG is online now
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    Posted On:
    6/15/2013 1:28am


     Style: Kendo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The bulk of kendo practice is two man drills and free sparring. Any given class night in our dojo would be divided into 15 min solo stuff (warmup, practice swings), 60 min two man drills, 30 min sparring. Drills include kirikaeshi (alternating diagonal cuts to the head that are blocked by the partner), kakari-keiko (attacking openings given by the partner who optionally can block avoid or counter), oji-waza drills (variations on partner attacking one way and you countering another) etc etc.

    Lots of koryu kenjutsu is also two man drills so long as you consider paired kata in that category. We have kata too but I am considering that seperately.

    Judo also has paired kata and is practised with a lot of two man drills.
    Last edited by NeilG; 6/15/2013 1:31am at .
  9. killface is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/15/2013 7:12am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Even Wing Chung people do a lot of two man drills. They are an significant part of the training in the schools I know about. I cant think of an TMA that doesnt have two man drills somewhere. You dont necessary learn any more fighting from them, as much as you learn from single forms.

    The actual difference probably lies more in alive training methods, sparring vs non-sparring.
  10. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/15/2013 7:28am

    supporting member
     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, since you are addressing kungfu in general:

    Taiji "2 man drill" called push hands:



    shuai jiao



    Sanshou:



    Xingyi 2 man drill:



    I guess you get the picture. Maybe FMA vs Kungfu was a little too broad.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you cardio without the dishonour of aerobics.
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