A Prayer

**Nefron** · Posted On: 12/26/2012 8:04pm

A tip for the guys that want to stand up to oppressive governments: get anti tank weapons. Armor will be rolling, and your AR can't do jack ****.

**Mr. Machette** · Posted On: 12/26/2012 9:02pm

Originally Posted by Nefron

A tip for the guys that want to stand up to oppressive governments: get anti tank weapons. Armor will be rolling, and your AR can't do jack ****.

You mean like a wad of high explosives and a cone shaped piece of copper plating?

Yeah, got it...

**Nefron** · Posted On: 12/26/2012 9:11pm

Originally Posted by Mr. Machette

You mean like a wad of high explosives and a cone shaped piece of copper plating?

Yeah, got it...

I'm not sure I understand your point here. You mean you can improvise and make anti tank weapons on demand?

**Mr. Machette** · Posted On: 12/26/2012 9:21pm

Originally Posted by Nefron

I'm not sure I understand your point here. You mean you can improvise and make anti tank weapons on demand?

Who me?

Wouldn't dream of it...

**Nefron** · Posted On: 12/26/2012 9:24pm

Originally Posted by Mr. Machette

Who me?

Wouldn't dream of it...

You show me yours, I'll show you mine.

**Mr. Machette** · Posted On: 12/26/2012 9:34pm

Originally Posted by Nefron

You show me yours, I'll show you mine.

Not on a public forum.

Suffice to say, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

**doofaloofa** · Posted On: 12/27/2012 3:56am

Originally Posted by Mr. Machette

Is there a lot of red to tape to own them in Ireland? Over here it depends on where a person lives. Some states are like the wild west (don't point it where it don't belong and you're a-ok) while some areas are even more restrictive than the UK (must be kept dissasembled and locked up).

It is surprisingly easy to get a gun licence here if you own land, have access to land or join a gun club.

Costs €80 for three years per permit

i have a 100 round restriction on stored ammo, and the 12g has a limiter in the magazine so it will only take 2 rounds (+1 up the spout)

Most farmer have an old shotgun knocking around and the gun clubs are well subscribed. There are way more rifles and shotguns around than you would imagine

**Vieux Normand** · Posted On: 12/27/2012 11:33am

I have found it a common view, among some Americans, that privately-owned guns aren't allowed anywhere outside of the USA. Not sure why this is.

As the Fragrant Flying Mammal states, rifles and shotguns are quite common in rural areas pretty much all over Europe. Yes, even in France.

Guns may not get quite the high-profile treatment here that they do in the US. It might simply be that, in Europe, a gun is simply considered a tool rather than some kind of religious sacrament/ideological symbol.

**Mr. Machette** · Posted On: 12/27/2012 11:48am

Originally Posted by Batman Smells

i have a 100 round restriction on stored ammo, and the 12g has a limiter in the magazine so it will only take 2 rounds (+1 up the spout)

Dang. That's not a lot if you plan on getting in practice.

The fee's aren't unbelievable, but would violate the constitution here. (I.E. self defense is a natural right, not a paid priviledge.)

As common as the American missconception that hunting arms are scarce around the world so it the missconception about our rights comming from other countries.

Most of the world treats their citizens as if the rights are "granted" by the existing government. Y'all are treated as "subjects" by a ruling class with a "tough ****, daddy knows best" attitude.

Here the rights are recognized as being de-facto and belonging to any organism with enugh brains and teeth to defend them. We "grant" the rights unto ourselves through personal action.

I.E., you don't charge someone yearly permit fees for a constitutional right. That would be like making people pay dues for their freedom of speech or freedom from discrimination.

It's not hard to imagine a government that takes punitive action against someone for un-authorized speech or for being the wrong ethnicity.

Those types of governments are the very reason the second amendment was enumerated. Also note a complete lack of reference to "hunting" in it's text. I see resistance to tyrany, and defense of nation, but no hunting...

So FWIW, on this end of the pond we place value on being as well or better armed than those who wold do us harm. That intent comes before the duck hunting thing.

**Vieux Normand** · Posted On: 12/27/2012 1:41pm

Originally Posted by Mr. Machette

Most of the world treats their citizens as if the rights are "granted" by the existing government. Y'all are treated as "subjects" by a ruling class with a "tough ****, daddy knows best" attitude...on this end of the pond we place value on being as well or better armed than those who wold do us harm.

So...Americans are allowed to purchase, privately, better arms than those wielded by the State? Better tanks, drones, ships, combat aircraft and so on?

No?

But...what about "defense against tyranny"--or does daddy know best?

A bit of an aside here: if you're a State, what might be the best way to ensure that you maintain power? That no others within your borders ever become sufficiently numerous, well-funded or organized to pose a threat? How to ensure a critical-mass of opponents of the State never, ever builds up, that no groups ever remains cohesive enough to be a problem?

How about divide-and-conquer?

A cultural tenet of rugged, "you're-not-the-boss-of-me" individualism might be the ticket for tyrants. This sacrament could be emphasized beginning in the earliest years at home and school. Ensure that even the term "collective" is frowned upon as ideologically tainted and unpatriotic.

Those growing up to assimilate *ahem* this tenet would then be too cantankerous, fractious and perpetually-divided to form anything more than a pickup-truck militia, which could neither challenge the State nor defend itself against it--the State (daddy who knows best) is always better-armed than private citizens. Private citizens who are convinced that they're all "free" and **** might be less inclined to believe that State would dare to challenge them--so they never challenge the State. Everybody's happy.

Not that this kind of mass-manipulation would ever occur to anyone...